Ok, I posted about this thursday and got laughed at, called an idiot and was told I look stupid when I post something like that. well I deleted my post but after reflecting on the subject, I decided to not let someone intimidate me like that and post again. Just figured that if I am an idiot then ok… I wrote a long story but basically I just want simple basic advise right now about being so quad dominant on the bike.
My quads burned so bad (and tend to do so) when I bike hard. I am still tweaking my set up and would like to know how the set up affects the quads. Does pushing the saddle back make me less quad dominant, vs moving it forward? I know I need to pull with hamstrings more but i am still curious to learn how changing the set up can help that.
this is fine question. people that laugh at you, they are the idiots.
is this a training question? heck, all the muscles that i use burn when i am getting back in shape. in other words, will your quads still be burning when you do a moderate pace and moderate distance ride in may or june?
position might have an effect. but possibly more likely is that you are just jamming on the pedals like you are doing leg presses in the wt. room. sure, the pedals move, but the quads do too much of the work, and then they burn.
when you pedal, do you see your ankle joint moving? when it moves a lot, then you are using a lot more of the muscles of the lower leg to do some of the work. as well, learning to ‘spin’, makes the soleus, calves, hamstrings, and glutes take much more load. all which keeps the quads fresher.
well no… I mean the question is about my new bike versus old bike. My quads burn a lot more with my new set up, I am trying to understand how the set up affects that part. I am suppose to be peaking right now ( doing IMAZ). I am trying to understand physiology more than anything and if it it would be possible that my new set up would put me more quad dominant.
and are you sure that w/ one bike the quads don’t burn, and on the other they do? you sure its not the kind of riding you are doing differently on the different bikes?
but if you are sure, change the set ups of the bike(s) to match the one(s) where you are more comfortable, more efficient, and w/ less quad burning.
Generally speaking, when you have that quad burning sensation is because your sitting too far forward, which means your hip angle is too wide.
In order to change that, you need to either go low in the front or push your saddle back. These two actions will have an effect of closing the hip angle.
Another thing that can help is to ride a properly fitted road bike, which teaches you to have a more “round” pedaling technique (I didn’t say pedaling circles!), where you activate more muscle mass into your stroke, mainly the gluteous.
Working on high cadences and also ILT also teaches you to have a smoother stroke, where you involve more muscle mass, even though this is questioned by many.
Sophie - YES, pushing the saddle back will use more of your hamstrings (of course, pedaling in circles, pulling up with the hip flexors, etc. will also help). Riding really steep (80 degrees plus) uses a lot of quads, which is why tri riding should be spinning instead of mashing. Watch the pros cycle with the seat way back. I can sit up, no handed up a hill at 21 mph catching all the wind in the world and my back/legs feel great! 21 mph in the aero position doesn’t really feel (to me) to use that much less leg strength (although I’m sure it does over the long haul).
Since running uses a lot of hamstrings, it is thought that by sparing the hammys, that running is better off a steep angle bike vs. a shallow angle.
The problem is, everyone is different and it is never so simple. I’ve tried it both ways (just about 80 degrees on my Guru and 73 on my Vortex) and my overall tri time is about the same (except for a hilly tri, like the Little Smokies/DeSoto Triple T where I usually do Very well on my road bike) . I’m a bit of a masher by nature as well. Bike split is much faster on my road bike, but I tend to run better off my tri bike. Since I’m naturally a better runner, I’m going to go a little more shallow this year, bike as fast as I can, and just run. Also, I hate the dead quads feeling off the bike (either way, but more so off the tri bike).
Again, the main benefit of steep riding is to get aero while keep your hip angle opened up. For many more aero equals less power/speed. Finding the balance is tough. The F.I.S.T. camp believes in the steep/aero at all costs (and they are likely right if you can get used to it). Also for you (who do mostly longer tris), I think the more aero/steep is better. For a short tri, just hammer in the drops on a road bike for 25 miles. You wouldn’t be much faster on a tri bike and you wouldn’t have burned that much more energy punching through the wind. Then, you only have to run 10K. As many have said (and I definitely agree) that an IM is not about going faster, but not slowing down.
I totally agree with Paulo. Another thing to note…when are you starting to really push down with your quads? Let your feet "float across from 11 O’Clock to 2 O’Clock by kicking foward, not down. When you get to from 2-5 O’Clock, jam down hard on the pedals, using gravity to your advantage and push down hards with the quads…but not earlier.
Nothing wrong with this question. I wish more people would become interested in how saddle position affects various muscle groups, as the subject has interested me for a long time.
Generally, my feeling is that the quads should be the first muscle group to become tired. I say that because they are the largest, strongest set of muscles in your legs, and should be able to do more work than the smaller muscles like hip flexors, hams, etc. In my way of thinking, if during normal rides, your quads are the first muscles to burn/fail, you are properly protecting your smaller muscles. Raise that saddle too high, your hip flexors are going to wear out way before your quads begin to suffer. I don’t really believe that 1. everything should tire at the same rate, and 2. that is even possible to achieve.
There is a trade off though, if your quads hurt too much, too soon, thats no good. You might need to take some of that stress off of the quads by moving the saddle back, which will engage more of your hamstrings.
I’m going to guess you spin a low cadence and too big a ring, as these are the primary causes of tired quads besides saddle position issues.
Spinning a higher cadence will take strain off of the quads, too, so its a good idea to learn to spin higher rpms, easier gears. But it takes years to develop enough experience to spin higher cadence, so start now if you haven’t already.
Each year I begin the season off by evaluating how my body’s aging/changing requires adjustment of my saddle to return me to the place where my quads tire first. I can greatly affect how long I can hang with the roadies on the weekly club “race” by making sure I’m fitted so the quads give out before any other muscle groups.