Is it better to build endurance in sets of 500+ for example or 5x100 sets with 20 sec rest?
Better than what?
My bad i didnt clarify that well enough. Is it better to do a straight set of 500yards or break it down into 5x100 sets with 20 sec rest
Thanks, I didn’t read it close enough.
If your form stays consistent for the 500 yards, you can build endurance better with the 500 yards.
You can improve speed better with the 5 x 100.
If your form can’t stay decent for the 500 yards, do the 5 x 100 no matter what.
My form is good but im slow on the 500 straight
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Where are you in relation to the rest of the people in your AG on the swim? Top 20%, top 33%?
I only had one sprint distance this year and it was a 16:17 for 500yards. Looking at the results it was about the middle of the pack
Got it. Hopefully that was a long 500 yards since that would be more than 3:00/100. Right now you will be much better off swimming shorter distances and focusing on technique as well as speed.
If you don’t have a coach or a master’s group to swim with, try and get one to address any basic stroke issues. Once those are out of the way then you can do some focus on speed. For endurance I like to do mixed-pace, so maybe a 200 where every other length is a sprint. You can also do 100s or 200s where you gradually increase the pace until you are sprinting at the end. I also like to do 50s with short rest (5 seconds). You can string a bunch of those together and sprint every 4th, every 3rd, every other. For endurance try a series of 100s with 20 seconds (like you mentioned). You might also want to do every other one as breaststroke just to give your freestyle muscles a break.) And don’t forget your kicking! It is an important part of your stroke, no matter what a lot of triathletes will tell you.
Bottom line - until you are really, really efficient and have a great stroke it is better to keep the exercises short so that you can execute with good form. Focus on your technique right now.
Im not sure if it was exactly 500 yards some people said it was longer. It was my first open water too so that was a bit scary. I had a swim coach but I can no longer afford it. Ive been doing a lot of kicking drills and stroke work to correct myself. My main problem is i dont pace myself well and aways going hard in the speed department
I only had one sprint distance this year and it was a 16:17 for 500yards. Looking at the results it was about the middle of the pack
If you are swimming at 3:00+ per 100, then you have some serious stroke flaws that need to be addressed first.
One of the better programs I’ve seen is the Ruth Kazez 0-1650. Once you get through that, then you can start worrying about interval and threshold sets, which is what will get your speed up. But again, unless your fitness is just horrible for swimming, your pace suggests you need work on your form.
John
Training Peaks is telling me today after my swim im at 2:35 pace. Ive worked on my stroke significantly. I had to take a 2 months off of hard swimming do to a foot injury. Before that triathlon i had a 10:25 for 500y in the pool. I know my stroke isnt perfect but my endurance is still garbage. What pace should i be at per 100m to build it up? ( i swim in a meter pool not yards now)
Training Peaks is telling me today after my swim im at 2:35 pace. Ive worked on my stroke significantly. I had to take a 2 months off of hard swimming do to a foot injury. Before that triathlon i had a 10:25 for 500y in the pool. I know my stroke isnt perfect but my endurance is still garbage. What pace should i be at per 100m to build it up? ( i swim in a meter pool not yards now)
Endurance building to start, don’t worry about pace. Don’t just dog it, but don’t worry too much about making it really hurt.
Start out with something like 10x50 on :10 seconds rest, or 10x100 on :20 seconds rest if the 50’s are easy, for your main set. Keep doing warmup and drills, if you can get a lesson or two with an instructor to see if they recommend any drills, that would be a great investment of $50-100 bucks.
Once you can get the 10x100 easy on :20, drop it to 10x100 on :10, or 10x50 on :05. You want to be able to swim probably at least 2x your race distance straight for base endurance. (Plus warmup/warmdown)
Once you have your endurance built up, then you can do something like a 3x300 threshold test, to get your training paces, then to increase speed you want interval and threshold work. Interval is at minimum 100% of race pace, with enough rest in between each part of the set to ensure you can make the goal time for all parts of the set.
Threshold work is done near race pace, somewhere between 85-95% of race pace, short rest intervals. Keep doing warmups and drills and warmdowns.
Continuous swimming + short rest at 70%+ of race pace increases endurance. Interval work makes your top speed faster, and threshold work increases the amount of time you can spend at race pace before dying.
John
Thanks for all the info! I have my work cut out for me. My plan is to do the half rev at cedar point next year as my A race and be competitive at olympic
+1 on Devlins suggestions to reduce the rest between 100s. At a 2:00 pace per 100, you could probably drop to :15 rest right away. However, since you seem to have pacing issues - or lack of endurance - they often feel the same - you WILL want to do some speed changing work. It is not so much PACE work, as it is technique work (the technique of speed that is). By changing speed, you will stimulate your body/brain to try to make improvements in your technique automagically.
Try doing 2 sets of 5x100, on :20 rest, starting out at around 2:10 for the first 100, and increase speed each successive 100 in the set of 5 (called descending) down to 1:55 on #5 if possible. If you find it easy to control your speed on this, then drop the rest to :15 and/or try to get the time on #5 to decrease even more. If you fail to change speeds properly, slow down on the first one, really pay attention to the clock, and really work at it - it will pay dividends.
regards,
r.b.
FWIW - if you were a new swimmer who just joined a swim team, there would not even be a question about this. You’d be doing mostly 100’s and 50’s in practice. Its much better to maximize you’re average speed over an entire workout than to “go long” when you are starting out. Actually, the current vogue in swim training, even for elites, is to lean towards doing very fast swims in training, even it means cutting down a bit on overall distance. Guys how win Olympic medals in the 1500m free do lots of 100s.
Just train like a swimmer and you’ll end up being a swimmer.
I’ve been in semi-retirement for three years but I’m making my way back now.
My ‘gold-standard’ IM training swim was 10x400 with 15 seconds rest between sets.
Most importantly: Hold the same pace from start to finish.
Concentrate on form -not efort- when you begin to get tired.
I’d appreciate your thoughts on my open water swimming:
I can swim a slow mile in the pool and be fine. I don’t do flip turns. When I swim in the lake, I have to stop frequently and catch my breath.
I’m working with a coach and have changed my stroke, I’ve started kicking (!). I have decent endurance on the bike and run.
I don’t know why I have to stop during the open water swimming to get my heart rate down. I wonder if not doing flip turns in the pool is giving me that extra breath I don’t get in the lake.
Thanks.
I’d appreciate your thoughts on my open water swimming:
I can swim a slow mile in the pool and be fine. I don’t do flip turns. When I swim in the lake, I have to stop frequently and catch my breath.
I’m working with a coach and have changed my stroke, I’ve started kicking (!). I have decent endurance on the bike and run.
I don’t know why I have to stop during the open water swimming to get my heart rate down. I wonder if not doing flip turns in the pool is giving me that extra breath I don’t get in the lake.
Thanks.
You might be short of oxygen.
Try breathing out of your nose underwater so that when you do breath, you have very little to exhale, and can spend most of the breadth inhaling.
thanks, I’ll try it.
I’d appreciate your thoughts on my open water swimming:
I can swim a slow mile in the pool and be fine. I don’t do flip turns. When I swim in the lake, I have to stop frequently and catch my breath.
I’m working with a coach and have changed my stroke, I’ve started kicking (!). I have decent endurance on the bike and run.
I don’t know why I have to stop during the open water swimming to get my heart rate down. I wonder if not doing flip turns in the pool is giving me that extra breath I don’t get in the lake.
Thanks.
What do people think about this? I don’t do flip turns either. I can do them, but get water up my nose every other one (which burns like hell, so I would need to refine my technique a bit.) But am I missing some big advantage by not doing them?