Bike People: Neophyte Question on Steel Builders

In my neophyte prepping for IM MOO, I am coming to really like biking in the area around Madison where I live. I am thinking of dropping some cash on a road bike in the next year or so, so I am trying to focus my consideration. I am kind of freakishly tall (though I make it on a 61cm Dual that was pro fit at a good shop), so I pretty much accept the fact that it is unlikely that I am going to fit on a stock road bike. I notice that some builders (Waterford, Seven, Calfee), even in their stock frame sizes, go a lot higher in frame sizes than the more mainstream brands (Cervelo & Felt). W’ford and Seven make their bikes up to 66 or 68 cm while Cervelo stops at 61. I do recognize that I cannot rule something out just based on top tube length - I never would have gotten the Dual if I had.

If I could get into a mainstream (if you can call it that), I would be interested in a SuperProdigy. But, assuming that I need something that is either custom or standard size from one of these custom builders - and assuming I want steel, and assuming i am talking about the lower end of all these lines (e.g. frame for less than 1600) whose work is the best: Serotta, Waterford, or Seven? Or is this a “can’t go wrong with any of them” question? Any other I should consider?

If you can fit the 61cm Super Prodigy then you’ve got one heck of a steel bike at a good price. If you fit the 61cm Dual, I’d think you might fit the road bike. Cervelo claims their tri ikes are sized the same as their road bikes. What you should do is go back to the shop that put you on the Dual and see if they can fit you to the SuperProdigy. If not, then consider custom.

No bike suggestions here, I just wanted to point out how much I envy you being able to ride in that area. I grew up in Verona and absolutely love Madison (UW, class of '93). My parents live right off the bike course. I want to move back so bad, but it’s so hard to find a good (read: high paying) job there when you don’t live there. Enjoy your rides!

whose work is the best: Serotta, Waterford, or Seven? Or is this a “can’t go wrong with any of them” question? Any other I should consider?

They’re all good. And, they’ll all ride essentially the same. In the end, it’s a personal choice about which one you want to own.

I think Serotta has a little more choice in their lineup suited to big guys.

The builders you mentioned are all good and I don’t think you would be disappointed with any of them. Framebuilding is a tough business to make money in and bad framebuilders don’t tend to last very long so most any reputable builder should be fine. If you hunt around there are even some decent guys building custom steel frames for $700-800. They don’t have ads in glossy magazines or sponsor big-budget racing teams, though.

Personally, my favorite brand is Anvil as Don Ferris is very good at all the major building processes - lugs, fillet brazing, and TIG welding. Sachs and Bayliss are really good too, but way expensive, slow, and lugged-only.

P.S. The local shop had a custom Litespeed hanging in the back the other day. It was for a 7’ former UNC BB player. Twas a BIG frame.

well, in the “lower end” of these boutique level impeccable builders serotta has the fierete (sp?) stock bike, which is pretty dang nice. moreover, all things considered serotta has always tended to build bikes on the stiffer side, which could be great for you - so tall and all.

on the other hand, waterford can match that firete easily, and custom built to whatever ride quality you wish ( color, too ) for only a tad bit more $ than the stock fierete. also, you, being in madison, could swing over to the factory and have mr schwinn show you your bike being brazed up - a cool way to spend a thursday afternoon, capped off with a fine ride in the kettle morraine.

no such thing as a low end seven.

i should also mention that w-ford will build you a custom “gunnar” level bike ( stock they go up to 62 cm . . . . ). tigged 853 and ox plat tubing to whatever spec you want. prolly a little under 1K for a custom gunnar, maybe less if you whine about height discrimination or something.

There are many other builders out there then the ones you mention, of the three I would go with waterford (local) over seven or serotta.
To name a few others there is Strongframes, soulcraft, sycip, vanilla,… all can build you a custom steel frame for under 1500. Also check out Curtlo, I think TTN has one of these. You can get a custom S3 for $1000 (or OX Plat for $700).

Andrew

If you want to ride a work of art as well as a fine bike, check out landshark. Plus John Slawta is a really nice guy!

I have a custom waterford. IF you go custom, my only advice is to work closely with the builder. I made the mistake of letting the bike shop (not a very good one) be my middle man. Live and learn. That’s where buying a waterford would be advantageous for you. You can always drive there and do a fitting with them.

Dan

johnt,

I’m partial to Serotta, but then I ride two of them, both steel. The csi, their flagship steel bike, and a lugged Rapid Tour, a touring version of a csi. Granted both these frames are out of your price range but they do make the Colorado which is a TIG welded steel bike with what they say is 80% of the ride of the csi but at substantially less cost. It might be worth a look. I doubt you’d be disappointed with a Serotta.

Leonard Zinn knows tall people as he is quite tall. I don’t know how well be builds bikes, but I used to ride a KHS TT frame that had his name, Boone Lennon’s name, and Steve Hed’s name on it, so he does know design and geometry.

Ves Mandaric makes nice steel bikes. I had ridden a pal’s Thron tubed bike, and it felt like it was an SL-level bike.

Yamaguchi Koichi (as he introduces himself, or Koichi Yamaguchi) makes nice steel frames for a few ticks under $1400- but this is the lighter steel frame. He makes a heavier-duty frame for about $1500. I don’t know how he executes in larger sizes, as my friends and I are well under 6’. He makes a really nice steel fork.

Waterford, Landshark, Serotta (of course) make very nice steel. Don’t forget Independent Fabrications.

With your size, steel is the material for you.

Good call Bunnyman…

http://www.zinncycles.com/bikes.aspx

The biggest frame builder in existence builds big frames. Makes big sense! At 6’6" Lennard Zinn knows what it takes. Light, strong, stable and comfortable custom road and mountain bikes for people from 6’3" and up.

If you are over 6’3", our Big and Tall Custom Bike may be the bicycle you have dreamed of but thought could not be found. You are well aware of the difficulties in finding a bicycle to fit you and perform well. I am 6’6" myself and have been building and designing frames for tall riders for over 21 years. Unlike shorter designers, I am able to ride big bikes and evaluate whether they perform to my standards, and I intimately appreciate the compromises in fit and performance that tall riders are traditionally asked to make.

Custom Zinn frames for tall riders are built out of steel or titanium and are designed specifically to address the fit, rigidity, handling and shimmy problem that normally plague the bikes of tall riders.

I am familiar with the shimmy and shake that many tall bicycles get at high speeds or riding with no hands, and I design my bikes to eliminate it. I know how whippy a tall frame can be standing or sprinting, and my designs address that as well. While being stiff, stable, and shimmy free, these frames are also built with the strongest available double-butted tubing-- True Temper OX Gold or with Ancotech titanium tubing. You get a long-lasting frame with a weight that belies its stiffness, strength and durability.

Big and Tall Custom Bikes are built with oversized tubing and unique frame geometry. The oversized tubing minimizes weight while maximizing stiffness and increasing the resonant frequency of the frame (thus reducing shimmy). The top tube is long enough for proper upper body extension, and by sloping the top tube we are able to make the bike stiffer, lighter, better. The bottom bracket is high for long cranks. The front end geometry provides great stability and minimizes shock transfer into the frame.

On road frames, the seat tube is shortened, and the top tube is lowered to stiffen the main triangle. The head tube on Big and Tall Custom road frames is reinforced and extends 1-1/2" to 3-1/2" above the top tube, making the effective frame size taller than the seat tube length indicates to maintain sufficient handlebar stem height. This design feature increases the rigidity of these tall frames and eliminate high-speed shimmy problems while still allowing the seat and stem to be set as high as needed. By lowering the top tube, the vertical dimension of the frame’s front and rear triangles is smaller, resulting in a stiffer frame that will not twist back and forth as easily. We also suggest sloping the top tube to gain even more of the benefits described above. An oversized seatpost (29.8mm on steel big frames and 28.6mm on titanium ones) delivers abundant rigidity with the shorter seat tube.

True Temper makes custom Alpha Q carbon road forks specifically for our Big and Tall road frames. Unlike most carbon forks, which have a steering tube that is around 300mm long, ours is 450mm long! So we can build a bike for a seven-footer and still end up trimming some length off of the fork steerer. Furthermore, the carbon steerer is over twice as thick as the carbon steerers found on other forks, giving it much greater rigidity (a big issue with such a long steerer and a big rider) and strength.

Our mountain frames have sloped top tubes to allow for better clearance and also accept a 29.8mm or 28.6mm seatpost (depending on whether it is a steel or titanium frame), which is better able to handle the long seatpost extension of a tall rider.The head tube accepts 1-1/8" steering tubes and works with standard-length threadless steering tubes from Rock Shox, Manitou, Marzocchi, and others. As I mentioned on the Custom Mountain Bike page, the 29" wheel option is a good one for tall riders, especially those over 6’6", since the length of the steering tube on a suspension fork no longer is a limiting factor for the handlebar height on a tall rider’s bike. The big wheels also roll over obstacles better, and they are in proportion with the tall frame.

We also recommend that tall riders consider purchasing our custom cranks, since a longer crank provides a great leverage advantage and offsets the weight and wind-resistance advantage that small riders have over us. By specifying the crank length at time of frame order, I can make the bottom bracket height appropriate to that crank, so your pedal clearance will be sufficient. Since the bottom foot ends up at the same height above the ground as with a shorter crank and lower bottom bracket, the rider’s center of gravity is also the same height above the ground. The frame can also be a bit stiffer and lighter as well, since the seat tube is correspondingly shortened from the bottom up as well.

Our Big and Tall custom frames are built to the same high quality standards as all Zinns. Steel and titanium frames are TIG-welded, or fillet-brazing is an option with steel frames. Steel frames are custom painted and clear coated to your specifications, while this is an option with titanium ones.

Wow…and those are 700C!!!

http://www.zinncycles.com/zinn_images/billcartwright.jpg

Maybe a little tall-ish in the head tube?

Seriously, who was that bike built for, Shaq? Or maybe Yao Ming? I hear Yao rides a bike everywhere he goes. Or at least he used to. He may have become a little more Americanized by now.

RP