I’ve heard that clipless are most efficient, pros use them, I saw everyone use them for IM or half IM.
Is there a study out there on the efficiency difference? How much time saved on a century, etc?
Or if someone has used both during long rides, what was your experiece on performance?
Pick your shoe carefully and I can’t see why there would be any efficiency difference from a power transfer standpoint.
There will be some aerodynamic penalty, though.
Just so I understand from a newb point of view, are you saying that a running shoe in a cage would not be much different from a clipless pedal, from a power efficiency standpoint?
But that the clipless pedal and bike shoes, are more aerodynamic?
Sorry ahead of time, if I misunderstood what you wrote.
Typical running shoes might not be the best choice, thick, squishy sole might sap a little power from hysteresis and let your foot squish around a lot. It also has quite a bit of stack height which could negatively affect your fit options (minimum knee angle more acute)
But some racing flats might work out pretty well, thin stiff sole etc. But you will still have the aero drag of the cage and large platform pedal.
What is the motivation here, faster transitions?
Just so I understand from a newb point of view, are you saying that a running shoe in a cage would not be much different from a clipless pedal, from a power efficiency standpoint?
But that the clipless pedal and bike shoes, are more aerodynamic?
Sorry ahead of time, if I misunderstood what you wrote.
Thanks for the input. No, not faster transitions as I’m generally slow as it is. I can’t seem to find a “comfortable” shoe which doesn’t cause me foot discomfort, whether it’s numbness, hot spots, etc. I’ve tried a whole bunch of MTB, road, and tri shoes, different sizes, widths, different cleats, socks, and tried changing my pedaling, pulling up, etc.
I’m about to give up and go to my old school pedals/cages for even longer tris, including half/full. Just wondering what I would lose.
A thin racing flat without power loss due to deforming the sole foam will still flex, probably even more.
Having a no-flex/locked in bike shoe is best because any power pushed on the pedal is transferred to the crank…not just the force pushed directly over the pedal spindle.
If you are having trouble finding a comfortable shoe and are fine with losing power each stroke (and the aero penalty), then take solace that your T2 will be a bit quicker.
Our lab has used our Vicon 3D system to do case studies on Flat (5.10 mountain bike specific shoes and DH (pinned) pedals) vs. road clipless shoes and pedals.
The difference was astounding, despite no real “bike fitting” (ie. no adjusting for cant etc between conditions).
The flat pedal / shoe resulting in an unsupported system that leads to energy waste. I cannot quantify that in a watt or time metric though.
(Not saying clipless are better because of it, just that typicall there is less wasted movement with their use)
Hey pickles. Do you mean you can’t quantify the energy waste because you are not allowed to or because you did not measure it?
Is the case study internal or you have something I can read (Are there any numbers/figures showing the “difference” which you can you can share from your study?)
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Thanks for the input. No, not faster transitions as I’m generally slow as it is. I can’t seem to find a “comfortable” shoe which doesn’t cause me foot discomfort, whether it’s numbness, hot spots, etc. I’ve tried a whole bunch of MTB, road, and tri shoes, different sizes, widths, different cleats, socks, and tried changing my pedaling, pulling up, etc.
I’m about to give up and go to my old school pedals/cages for even longer tris, including half/full. Just wondering what I would lose.
Just curious, have you ever had a professional bike done? (as in the thorough 3 hour kind?)
+1 Also, where was the foot on the pedal? I migrated to midfoot riding so switched to flat pedals whilst I evaluated it. Since then, I have stuck with the flat pedals/midfoot, and am failing to see any real difference that I can definitively say is due to the pedals (on the flat i have actually gained). Plus, as Jackmott pointed out, it is hard to see where the wasted energy is going with a midfoot style. However, if there is a large difference, I would love to know as I will have another go at re-drilling my shoes - the first attempt ended up with way too much toe overlap for everyday usage.
If anyone is into flat/clipless pedals debate, BikeJames is a big proponent, but he doesn`t have any efficiency studies.
Thanks for the input. No, not faster transitions as I’m generally slow as it is. I can’t seem to find a “comfortable” shoe which doesn’t cause me foot discomfort, whether it’s numbness, hot spots, etc. I’ve tried a whole bunch of MTB, road, and tri shoes, different sizes, widths, different cleats, socks, and tried changing my pedaling, pulling up, etc.
I’m about to give up and go to my old school pedals/cages for even longer tris, including half/full. Just wondering what I would lose.
Just curious, have you ever had a professional bike done? (as in the thorough 3 hour kind?)
Bike fit? I think you left out a key word there. Based on his description I thought it sounded like it could be a fit issue as well.
yes bike FIT, cripes sorry 'bout that.
I use these with some success. (Although I do almost all sprints, where transitions are a bigger factor than in longer races). On my trainer, I can detect no measurable difference in heart rate or perceived effort for a fixed power level between these with racing flats, and my Sidi shoes with Speedplay pedals. Note, the extension on the back of the pedal helps keep the shoe from flexing too much and there are teeth on the top of the platform to keep your foot in place.
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I remember reading that there is no loss of efficiency. Running shoes seem a lot less aero than a well designed tri or road shoe.