I have been shopping for a new road bike for the last month or so. I have been looking in the $1000 to $2000 price range. I know that there is quite a bit of difference between a $1K road bike and one that costs twice that much (a thousand dollars is more practical, two thousand is more like wishful thinking!). I started looking at the usual suspects: Giant, Felt, the offbrands like Chuck’s, etc. I didn’t even look at the giants like Trek and Cannondale. My experience with those companies was that at $1K and below, they just weren’t competitive.
I was in my LBS yesterday and noticed a Trek 1500 for the first time. This bike retails for something like $1075, and has 105 shifters/front derailleur, Ultegra rear de, carbon fork and carbon seatpost. The Bontrager wheelset didn’t look too shabby, either. I was amazed. A couple of years ago, a friend bought a Sora equipped Trek 1200. He paid $1000 for that bike. Now you can get an Ultegra/105 mix for that price from Trek.
Have the more value minded companies like Felt and Giant shaken up the marketplace enough that the big companies are finally taking notice? Or are companies realizing just how important that $1000-ish price range is? Or is it a combination?
I do sense a shift in the bike industry toward a more value packed bike. This is true on the tribike side of things as well. The $1500 price range is very competitive, with some very nice bikes at this price point. Looks like the same can be said for road bikes as well.
Anyone in the know care to comment? Are my observations right or am I way off in left field?
My thoughts: I tend to judge the value of a bike by its component spec- $1500 for a bike with Ultegra is a GREAT DEAL!
I think, though, that it’s not the best, most savvy approach. I think the real bike gurus put a much higher value on the quality and characteristics of the frame. I just don’t have enough expertise to judge frame quality, so I assume that manufacturers generally spec a frame with the equivalent value component. That might not be a real valid assumption in some cases.
That’s the way I do it. I kind of figure that at $1000 or so, the frames originated from Taiwan and are basically the same anyway. I could use some enlightenment on this as well.
Bike and value don’t, or shouldn’t, collide in the same sentence. Don’t let it happen again.
105 is garbage. Period. The other poster was right in looking at the component package when looking at a bike. There are a few places that you can get ultegra bikes for about a grand.
1: Supergo. They have a house brand that is very well equipped for $1000.00. This is the bike that I ride and it is just fine. It’s not the best frame that has been under me but I will be at NO, I repeat, NO DISADVANTAGE when training and racing. The group will be worth it. Ultegra is leagues better than 105.
2: Leader Bike. I have not been on one of these but it cant be worse than the Scattante I ride. I have heard a few good things about them so it is worth the call.
Overall I would go for the Leader. I have spoken with them before and they seem to know what they are doing. Fit should be the primary factor. Whoever gives you the best advice on fit would get my money. I got my Scattante for very cheap (frame and fork) and it is just fine.
After you spend THOUSANDS less on your bike, hop a plane to Boulder and I will take you on some of the best rides in this country on our crap bikes. After a hard winter of training on our machines that are not worthy of most triathletes garage space we will crush those fools on their 5000.00 geek-bikes with a simple set of clip-on’s and a forward post.
Thats it. Other than ebay, where you can find some great bikes if you know what you are looking at, those are the best bikes for the money. There may be more but I cant find them.
I posted pictures of my new Leader 785r yesterday under the heading My New Ride if you want to see what it looks like. You can buy this bike for 2149.00 (no tax) with full Dura Ace 7800 and bontrager wheels. Mine was a little more because I upgraded to race x lites but cosmetically it looks the same. It is an awesome bike…aluminum frame, carbon seat post, carbon fork, carbon rear triangle and full dura-ace you can’t go wrong. Good Luck
I’ve looked at Leader and Scattante, along with several others. I have been very close to pulling the trigger on a Leader bike. However, and this goes back to the LBS thread, I really want to support my LBS. He’s a great guy, and he really bends over backwards to help us out. Thing is, he’s 95 miles from me (I live in the hinterlands). But if I have a bike emergency and can get the bike to him, he’ll fix it no matter what day of the week or time of the day. He routinely drives 50 miles to meet me to pick up or deliver our bikes. Sometimes, he makes the whole trip to help us out. He carries several road brands, but Trek and Giant are his bread and butter lines. I’d get something like a Leader or Scattante in a heartbeat if it wasn’t for him. Whatever I get won’t be full Ultegra or anything like that, but I think doing business with my LBS would be worth it.
And since whatever I get would still be considered crap by many on the forum, could I still come out to Boulder with my crappy big name bike?
Regarding 105, that’s about all I’ve ever ridden. I think I had a bike with an Ultegra crankset once.
Let me get back to the original point of my post. I know there are solid bike values out there. However, for many years, the bigger names in cycling didn’t offer them. I go back to my buddy’s four year old Trek 1200 – it cost him a grand, maybe a little more and has a Sora kit on it. Now you can get a much better equipped 1500 for the price of that 1200. My first bike was a Trek 1000. I paid $650 for it in 2001. Now 1000’s are about $500. It seems to me that the bigger companies have noticed what the Giants and the Felts have been doing over the last few years, and are offering better bikes for less coin.
I usually shop for a bike by components. Certainly I look at fit first. Assuming two bikes will fit me well, I’ll pay more attention to the component group than to the frame (if both bikes are at comparable price points). Let me explain further. At the $1K price point, I have looked at a Giant TCR and the Trek 1500. Both aluminum, both made in Taiwan I presume. Both have sizes that would fit me (I’ve owned a Giant and a Trek in the past). What would sell me one bike over the other is the component spec. The Trek has an Ultegra rear de and 105 front de. The Giant has a 105 rear de and a Tiagra front. I also like the Bontrager branded stuff on the Trek better than the Giant’s equipment, particularly the wheelset. If I was writing a check right now, I’d buy the Trek.
A year or two ago, Trek would not have been able to compete with Giant at this price point. Now they are. Are Cannondale and Specialized offering similarly equipped bikes at this price point?
So my question is, what spurned this shift to offering better values to consumers? Or am I totally missing the boat here?
To interject, another good idea would be to look for someone unloading a year old bike who picked it up as a pro or team deal. Often very well cared for, sometimes even a newly replaced drivetrain, at very economical discount - like often half retail or less. Let someone else pay retail. Pick up a 3-4k$ bike for 1,500-2k$ or less.
Good on you for your support of the local guy. If he’s doing for you, do for him. on the other hand, many of the shops that I worked in made a great deal of their profit on service. Flat out, if you can get a WAY better rig for the same price, I’m sure that your guy would be happy to service, fit, replace worn parts whatever for you. It is a lot of overhead to stock bikes and the markup is small. Service is where most shops make it durring the winter and pure gravy durring the summer. Think about it. You take a good mechanic and give him/her 15 bucks an hour and they can turn out hundreds of dollars an hour in profit. Take your $1000 bike sale that will take at least an hour of time and you get 35% of that at most. accessories and service is where a shop is made or broken. (any shop owners jump in here if i’m off base)
Why are they offering less expensive bikes? Because they have to with the deals that you can get online these days. (Like the Leader and the Scattante) In my opinion, the bike industry is ripping most of us off. in turn they are ripping off your local guy as well. That 1000 dollar bike should NOT cost that much. Whay did the trek 5500 OCLV go UP in price as newer and better models came out? I got my OCLV frame/fork for under 600 pro deal. that means that the cost was around 800. 35% markup takes it to around 1100. I think at the time the frame fork was 1200 msrp. NOW that same frame was what 1600 in the last few years? Why? because old Lance-e-poo won a few bike races. HOW long did it take for shimano to make changes to the DA line? My DA is the FIRST generation 9 speed STI and is still just as good as last years 9 speed. I got it used in 1999 so it was about 98 when it came out?
Point is, you see the “cheaper bikes” now because there are a few people out there that are getting it and making good products for far less than the mass produced, overpriced shit on the market today. In the long run you are going to help out your local guy by buying the Leader. If enough of those sell, the big boys will make something to really compete with it. You can and will give plenty of money to the local guy when you get an indoor trainer, or stack up on tubes or get that yearly overhaul or true your wheels or repalce a few parts in your next crash. The list is long, take your pick. Hell, accessories give him a better markup anyway.
As you can see, I am a bit bitter when it comes to bikes. If there is someone out there who works first hand with the production of bikes please feel free to prove me wrong. Hand made bikes are one thing, although some of them are ridiculous (Seven) but mass produced bikes are KILLING me.
Dont even get me started on bike fit costs. Who here can bring in over $200.00 an hour without a degree? I’m sorry, but you bike guys are flat out ROBBING the public with bike fits. So you go to a couple of classes with serotta. A good massage therapist goes to school for a few years and will only charge about 50-60 an hour.
What to come to Boulder? If you can make it out here I’ll give you the tour of the great rides and runs. That goes for anyone. Hell, I know a great apartment for rent starting in December for only 500 month just down the road from the DeBooms in Lyons.
reason for drop in prices…planned obsolesescence(sp)…same as in the computer world…Shimano has all this 9sp stuff laying around and they know everyone really wants 10sp stuff…pull it off the market and jack up prices and lower availability for so long…then sell it all off to huge retailers for putting on Scattante and Leader bikes
Here is my new road bike. It’s the Scattante CFR limited edition from Supergo. Got it on sale for $1799 plus tax and I love it. Currently they sell it for 1899. The stem was too long for me but supergo let me exchange it for a shorter one. This bike fits me very well and I love the ride of Carbon fiber. Never thought that it would make that much of a difference. You can go to supergo’s web site and read about the specs. I shopped around and with this bike I got the most for my money. Shifters, brakes and derailleurs are Dura Ace. Stem, Seatpost, Cranks are Weyless (supergo brand) Carbon fiber. The frame comes with a 5year warranty.
Specs and Geometry info can be found on the website. They also have an Ultegra version for around 1300$. I decided to get the DA model for several reasons: nicer wheels, and DA over Ultegra …plus…well, yeah, I admit…I like the decals better They also have financing 12 month at 0% if I remember correctly. Check it out.
officially get replaced by the price point component spec paradigm, again? i guess they won then, eh?
i would still take say, an OX plat/853 gunnar frame with (used, if need be) 105/tektro/FSA parts over a cheap ass chinese frame and ultegra anyday. the “value” or significance people place on parts these days puzzles me. a sweet frame with some half-worn out 105 junk on it handing the mundane chore of shifting gears used to be the budget racer’s standard weapon and old-rich-guy killer, and it worked fine in that capacity. the industry, for obvious reasons, has worked hard to get that reversed, and it looks like they succeeded. ah well. . . . . . .
“a sweet frame with some half-worn out 105 junk on it handing the mundane chore of shifting gears used to be the budget racer’s standard weapon and old-rich-guy killer, and it worked fine in that capacity.”
Interestingly enough, that’s kind of the approach I took with my tribike. I went for a Yaqui Manzanita. It was several hundred dollars more expensive than other 105 equipped tribikes, but I knew the frame quality was much better than, say a QR Kilo or Trek Equinox or something like that. Also, there are no component downspecs on the Manzanita – 105 brakes, bottom bracket, front de, etc. It’s still a round tubed aluminum frame, but it’s a better frame than the mass produced 105 tribikes. So I guess I used the above philosophy with my tribike. Why don’t I use it with my road bike search? That’s a very good question . . .
Agreed, but it’s a losing battle we’re fighting amigo. I really have to laugh when I see people saying things like “105 is junk” and claiming that they can tell the diference between ultegra and durachee. Not to say they it isn’t possible - some people can tell the difference between a $700 bottle of wine and a $12 bottle - but most of us can’t.
People forget that today’s 105 is essentially the durachee of 3-4 years ago. There is nothing about 105 that will prevent a fit rider from racing well, or winning. Hell - someone should get Bjorn to race NOS Sante and IMNZ next year, just to see how big of a difference it will make (none).
They also have financing 12 month at 0% if I remember correctly. Check it out.