Best workouts for improving run speed

Triathlon Forum
1

I’m a pretty big guy (6’2, 215# right now and trying to get back to 200), and I came from a cycling background into Tri, and over the winter I was out for about 5 months with shoulder surgery, PT, etc. and I’m trying to regain some shred of fitness. I’m basically a MOP triathlete–a FOP cyclist with BOP swims and runs.

For as long as I’ve cared about it, my running speed and my bike speed are EXTREMELY far apart. I’ve turned a 23mph oly bike split, only to run at 9-9:15 for the run–unfortunately, that’s a good 10K for me. My last marathon was 4:30 and by half PR was 2:15. Again, NOT fast. Some of the problem was pacing on the bike, but even when I tone down the bike split I’m a dog-slow runner. I started wearing Newtons because I was a hardcore heel striker, and while I did say goodbye to knee, hip, and back pain, I didn’t see a huge speed boost (although there was a little–hard to tease out since I was training pretty hard at the time too).

The guy who did my tri bike fit (Greg Combs at http://www.velosmart.com --great guy if you’re in NC) also does run gait analysis and I’m hoping this will help, but I’m looking for some specific recommendations for workouts that specifically improve turnover and overall speed. I know I’ll never be on the podium but I’m just trying to get my run more in line with my bike in terms of what I feel I’m really capable of. I know there’s no magic solution and I need to hit the hills/sprints/VO2Max intervals more, but I want to be smart about it so I don’t go too crazy with the speed training. I really just want to come off the bike and quit hemorrhaging time for the duration of the run. I feel like with a LTHR of 180 I should be capable of more.

2

Run more.

3

Run more.

Historically that has improved my ability to run a long time, but not done much for my speed. Don’t get me wrong, I know volume helps, but having a day job and other obligations I want to focus my efforts a bit. Also working on getting rid of that extra 20# I’m dragging around.

4

You’re a big guy and even at 200 lbs you’re going to be put your body through some stress by doing fast paced running. Being a bit lighter than 200 would be my first goal. Not that easy at 6’2" but I’m just over 6’ and used to race at about 175. Being a bit lighter will reduce the risk of stress related injury. You’ve clearly got the ‘engine’ judging by your bike times.

5

I went from a 1:45(ish) HM to a 1:31 HM in 6 months by dropping 25 lbs and running faster sets in my hour runs on a regular basis.

Last year I went from a 3:10 Mary to a 2:58, by running tons of hills. Not just running them slowly, but hitting them hard and often. I rarely/never do any track work, but I run often with people much faster than me, which helps.

Start slow, add a 15 minute fast set into your normal runs, run more, and drop some pounds.

6

You’re a big guy and even at 200 lbs you’re going to be put your body through some stress by doing fast paced running. Being a bit lighter than 200 would be my first goal. Not that easy at 6’2" but I’m just over 6’ and used to race at about 175. Being a bit lighter will reduce the risk of stress related injury. You’ve clearly got the ‘engine’ judging by your bike times.

Yeah, working on that. Nothing like an injury that keeps you sedentary for a few months combined with stupid eating decisions to get good and fat. But even when I’ve been down in the 190s I’m not much faster. Definitely a piece I’m working on though.

7

I went from a 1:45(ish) HM to a 1:31 HM in 6 months by dropping 25 lbs and running faster sets in my hour runs on a regular basis.

Last year I went from a 3:10 Mary to a 2:58, by running tons of hills. Not just running them slowly, but hitting them hard and often. I rarely/never do any track work, but I run often with people much faster than me, which helps.

Start slow, add a 15 minute fast set into your normal runs, run more, and drop some pounds.

Congrats on the improvements. Definitely some simple (if not easy) stuff to add to the schedule. Thanks.

8

Do some exercises: heel raises, hip flexor stretch, hip flexor extend, lunges.

As much as I hate to say it treadmil running will help make you faster bc it pushes you. But if you have something that tracks your speed and pace then do that instead if you aren’t comfortable with the treadmil.

Beginner Speed Program
What to do For how long Intensity (1-10) Warm up at 3.5 mph pace 5 minutes 3.5 Jog at 5 mph pace 2 minutes 5 Jog at 5.3 mph pace 2 minutes 6 Jog at 5.7 mph pace 5 minutes 7 Jog at 5.9 mph pace 3 minutes 7.5 Jog at 5 mph pace 2 minutes 5 Cool down 5 minutes 3.5 Total Workout Time: 24 minutes

Intermediate Speed Program
What to do For how long Intensity (1-10) Warm up at 5 mph pace 5 minutes 3.5 Jog at 5.5 mph pace 2 minutes 5 Jog at 5.8 mph pace 2 minutes 6 Jog at 6.2 mph pace 5 minutes 7 Jog at 6.4 mph pace 3 minutes 7.5 Jog at 5.5 mph pace 4 minutes 5 Jog at 5.8 mph pace 2 minutes 6 Jog at 6.2 mph pace 2 minutes 7 Jog at 6.4 mph pace 5 minutes 7.5 Jog at 5.5 mph pace 2 minutes 5 Cool down 5 minutes 3.5 Total Workout Time: 37 minutes

Advanced Speed Program
**What to doFor how longIntensity (1-10)Warm up at 5.5 mph pace5 minutes3.5Jog at 6 mph pace2 minutes5Jog at 6.3 mph pace2 minutes6Jog at 6.7 mph pace5 minutes7Jog at 6.9 mph pace3 minutes7.5Jog at 6 mph pace4 minutes5Jog at 6.3 mph pace2 minutes6Jog at 6.7 mph pace5 minutes7Jog at 6.9 mph pace3 minutes7.5Jog at 6 mph pace4 minutes5Jog at 6.3 mph pace2 minutes6Jog at 6.7 mph pace5 minutes7Jog at 6.9 mph pace3 minutes7.5Jog at 6 mph pace2 minutes5Cool down5 minutes3.5Total Workout Time:**52 minutes

9

I am unaware of how long your running distances are, but with this response I’m assuming sprints and oly’s.

I’ve used interval training to help my times in the past.

Now, I must say, don’t go at 100% during your “hard” intervals and 0-30% for your “rest” intervals. Shoot for a slightly faster than race pace for your “hard” intervals and about a 60% effort for your rest intervals. Start at shorter distances, (1/4 or 1/2 mile) with timed “rest” breaks where the time is about 50-75% of your “hard” intervals. As the distance becomes too comfortable or too short make them incrementally longer without changing your timed breaks too much. Depending on your race distance, I wouldn’t go much further than a 1 or 1&1/2 miles in my intervals as my training continued on. Usually changes to your plan are directly linked to the amount of time you are training.

With a history of joint problems you should choose a forgiving surface, a comfortable pace and a fairly short distance to start out.

With that said, I really, really really dislike interval training!

10

What are your bike watts per kilo. If you know what that is, we can guess if you are underachieving at the run or no relative to your “engine”. Knowing your bike speeds are fairly meaningless because you might have high brute watts and decent Cda, but that does not mean you will run well, unless you improve your engine, or you lose weight or do both (and also run a lot).

Generally run speed has little to do with actual speedwork, its more about building a better engine and getting lighter. All of us can run 50m at world record marathon speed (so we have the inherent foot speed), the problem is most of us can’t even do it for 200m, forget about 400m or 2000m or 21,000m. The guys running faster usually have bigger engines and are lighter for their engine.

11

Yeah, mostly sprints and olys, with my first 70.3 at the end of the season.

12

What are your bike watts per kilo. If you know what that is, we can guess if you are underachieving at the run or no relative to your “engine”. Knowing your bike speeds are fairly meaningless because you might have high brute watts and decent Cda, but that does not mean you will run well, unless you improve your engine, or you lose weight or do both (and also run a lot).

I think you’re right–It’s been a good while since I’ve used a power meter, but last time I did my FTP was about 340 at about 89kg, so 3.8. I’m sure I’m much lower now. Probably a good brute watts/good Cda situation.

I guess the only “problem” with cycling is that technique and aerodynamics can speed you up a lot more than any such trickery on the run.

13

As another poster mentioned most of this was done on a treadmil by simply hitting the faster button for 15-20 minutes. I struggled for years with slow run times until I started training faster…to me it is that simple.

14

You need to drop 25# and add both speed and strength elements…

Speed ex. (probably on Tuesday nights)
2m wmup
4x 300, 500, 1000 (100 jog after the 3 and 5, 200 jog after the k)
2m wmndn

or

2m wmup
4x 200, 400, 600, 800 (100 jog between ea)
2m wmndn

Strength ex. (probably Thursday or maybe Saturday mornings)
10-12k at slightly faster than target half mary pace with 3 x 5 minutes at 5k race pace in the middle
or
6 hills ranging from 60 meters (steep 15% grade) to 800 meters (steady 7% grade)
go up each 5 times hard, letting your HR return to comfortable talking level on the jog down each
total workout - 8 miles

All of these workouts risk injury as you will be pushing far harder and at a much faster tempo than you have been…monitor yourself closely.

Losing the weight will be critical to real improvement.

15

I’m surprised nobody has asked what seems like an obvious question. What is your current running schedule?

16

Haha. Good question. Since I just started back it’s not been much. Right now I’m on a pretty basic duathlon plan with 3-4 runs/week of 30-90min, some incorporated into bricks, to shake the cobwebs off. After my duathlon coming up this weekend I’m going to start building the volume and adding more tempo/speed work. But no, I’m nowhere near where I need to be volume- or intensity-wise. The thing is that my slow running pre-dates my current situation.

This will all get to be a lot more fun when I start getting my postop shoulder back in the pool too.

17

What are your bike watts per kilo. If you know what that is, we can guess if you are underachieving at the run or no relative to your “engine”. Knowing your bike speeds are fairly meaningless because you might have high brute watts and decent Cda, but that does not mean you will run well, unless you improve your engine, or you lose weight or do both (and also run a lot).

I think you’re right–It’s been a good while since I’ve used a power meter, but last time I did my FTP was about 340 at about 89kg, so 3.8. I’m sure I’m much lower now. Probably a good brute watts/good Cda situation.

I guess the only “problem” with cycling is that technique and aerodynamics can speed you up a lot more than any such trickery on the run.

OK, if you are a 3.8W per kilo guy, you are underachieving on the run. I’d put you well sub 1:30 half marathon range assuming you can get to the same level of proficiency on the run. Are you one of these guys with really big calves and no achilles tendon (vs the Kenyans with achilles that nearly go up to the back of their knees and puny calves)?

How fast can you run 400m, and 1 mile when you are in 3.8W per kilo shape? Maybe you need to go on the Desertdude diet and lose 1 lb per week for 5 months!

Dev

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tempo runs. At his point “speed work” is asking for injury. …Funny though, if you look at the guys screen name that said “run more”

19

I’m in a similar boat as you. I’m a bigger guy. 6’1" 205 lbs. Last year I raced at ~210. The season before that ~215. Just as an FYI, I only race sprints and most of them are not huge races with tons of racers. Usually 200 or so racers. So take the results with a grain of salt even though I think the ranking and finishing give an idea.

In the sprints, I’m FOP cyclist (even with horrible W/kg) and what I would consider MOP runner. This is even though I seriously cut back on my cycling. I actually run more than cycle and still finish higher on the bike than the run. This is probably due the my power output on the bike due to my weight. In my opinion, my bike power is underperforming compared to my run. However, I still rank much better on the bike in races.

Here is what I figure for my performances.

20 minute run power = ~ 4W/kg
20 minute bike power = ~3.3W/kg

Last season I ran 6 times a week and bike ~3 times. So about double the time.

This winter I only rode two times a week for a little over an hour total.

In my opinion, my power on the bike is pretty horrible. Most of my races were right around 2.9W/kg and had a #1 and #2 ranked bike and all of the others were top 10. My runs were never higher than top 30 even though I was putting in a good amount of time.

I’m still not a fast runner but I can tell you that upping my mileage and doing absolutely no speed work dropped about 3 minutes off my 5k in a winter. After I finished my first season, I decided my goal was going to be a sub 20 5k however long it took.

In my first season, I just upped mileage from 50 mpm to 70 mpm and knocked 2:30 off my 5k split. Dropped it from ~27:30 to 25:00.

After my first season ended, I upped my mileage even more (i’m embarrassed to post the monthly mileage) with no speed work at all. Dropped my open 5k time from ~24:00 to ~21:15.

My second season was rough for running. The summer came and my training paces dropped from 8:30 to almost 10:00 due to the heat. I tried to keep good mileage though the season and it took its toll.

After second season season, I decided once again to go after the 20 minute 5k. In my first attempt, I saw the effects of the hot summer. My open 5k was almost 22 minutes. I upped my mileage even more and finally broke 21:00 in my 5k at 20:50. Looks like the progress is slowing :frowning:

So I guess in summary, more mileage was the key for making me faster. Still not fast though. By the looks of things, I’m going to have to lose weight to go sub 20 though. I figure I would be sub 20 if I could lose 10 lbs but I’m failing at that.

20

You’ve got great advice here so far. I will second the need to add 1 or 2 more runs per week for you to improve while minimizing the risk of injury. If you got yourself up to six runs per week, make 3 of those runs short and easy. I usually do my short and easy runs on my biking days.

The other 3 runs should be your workouts. I don’t think you need to do any track work to improve. Just focus on doing one or two 20 minute sets at your LT pace during your workout days. LT pace is your 60 minute pace.