tubeless ready tires are clinchers. But not all clincher tires are tubeless ready.
That’s right, and your answer is right. Just muddied a bit by the fact that you with hookless rim you must use tubeless tires, tube or no tube.
To be pedantic, you must use hookless compatible tyres on hookless rims/wheels. Not all tubeless tyres are hookless compatible.
tubeless ready tires are clinchers. But not all clincher tires are tubeless ready.
That’s right, and your answer is right. Just muddied a bit by the fact that you with hookless rim you must use tubeless tires, tube or no tube.
To be pedantic, you must use hookless compatible tyres on hookless rims/wheels. Not all tubeless tyres are hookless compatible.
Or even more pedantic, not just hookless compatible, but tire model and tire size specifically approved by a given rim manufacturer. Cue the hookless eye-rolling. 
Gp5000 TT
Vitoria corsa speeds
^^^^ this.
stupid question.
Is the gp5000 tt, which is marked tr, suitable as clincher (with a tube inside)?
The Continental Grand Prix 5000 TT TR tire is a tubeless tire, but you can put a tube in it.
However, it would be smarter to use a standard clincher tire because it would weigh less.
such as what tire ?
You’re better off ignoring Jimatbeyond his advice only really works inside his own head. I’m surprised he hasn’t suggested short cranks on this thread.
He suggested the Standard GP5000 with a latex tube which would be the same weight as a GP5000TT with latex tube but measurably slower.
In theory Your less likely to picture though but the same could be said for Gatorskins.
Gp5000 TT
Vitoria corsa speeds
^^^^ this.
stupid question.
Is the gp5000 tt, which is marked tr, suitable as clincher (with a tube inside)?
The Continental Grand Prix 5000 TT TR tire is a tubeless tire, but you can put a tube in it.
However, it would be smarter to use a standard clincher tire because it would weigh less.
such as what tire ?
You’re better off ignoring Jimatbeyond his advice only really works inside his own head. I’m surprised he hasn’t suggested short cranks on this thread.
He suggested the Standard GP5000 with a latex tube which would be the same weight as a GP5000TT with latex tube but measurably slower.
In theory Your less likely to picture though but the same could be said for Gatorskins.
According to BRR, the original gp5000 is actually heavier than the gp5000 TT TR (221g vs 210g).
Gp5000 TT
Vitoria corsa speeds
^^^^ this.
stupid question.
Is the gp5000 tt, which is marked tr, suitable as clincher (with a tube inside)?
The Continental Grand Prix 5000 TT TR tire is a tubeless tire, but you can put a tube in it.
However, it would be smarter to use a standard clincher tire because it would weigh less.
such as what tire ?
You’re better off ignoring Jimatbeyond his advice only really works inside his own head. I’m surprised he hasn’t suggested short cranks on this thread.
He suggested the Standard GP5000 with a latex tube which would be the same weight as a GP5000TT with latex tube but measurably slower.
In theory Your less likely to picture though but the same could be said for Gatorskins.
According to BRR, the original gp5000 is actually heavier than the gp5000 TT TR (221g vs 210g).
I was going by Conti’s own data but there you go another mail I the coffin of Jim’s advice! Thanks!
Even if the TT was heavier, I’d still run them over the original 5000.
Even if the TT was heavier, I’d still run them over the original 5000.
I would too! In fact I did and even switched to a heavier 28mm rear as the weight has such little relevance.
I was going by Conti’s own data but there you go another mail I the coffin of Jim’s advice! Thanks!
One could argue that the Veloflex Record Clincher over the Record TLR saves ~25g in tire-only weight (150g vs 175g for 23mm). But a Vittoria latex tube is ~75g. An entire 2oz. bottle of Stan’s is ~59g of sealant. So even if you dump an entire bottle in, you still come out ahead in weight with the TLR setup.
And honestly half a bottle is probably good for a 23mm race tire. The full bottle is more for the original use of the 2oz Stan’s, which is a MTB tire.
It’s pretty hard to find a weight win or a Crr win for tubed clinchers these days. You can find some parity still.
Edit: Didn’t account for stem weight, but I’m reading about 16g, or as light as 3-4g if you go full titanium weenie. So doesn’t change the outcome significantly.
Even if the TT was heavier, I’d still run them over the original 5000.
To be fair the real standard for comparison would probably be the Supersonic, not the clincher version of the 5000
Even if the TT was heavier, I’d still run them over the original 5000.
I would too! In fact I did and even switched to a heavier 28mm rear as the weight has such little relevance.
With about 10w of rolling resistance difference I was curious what logic could justify the old tire
Gp5000 TT
Vitoria corsa speeds
^^^^ this.
stupid question.
Is the gp5000 tt, which is marked tr, suitable as clincher (with a tube inside)?
The Continental Grand Prix 5000 TT TR tire is a tubeless tire, but you can put a tube in it.
However, it would be smarter to use a standard clincher tire because it would weigh less.
such as what tire ?
You’re better off ignoring Jimatbeyond his advice only really works inside his own head. I’m surprised he hasn’t suggested short cranks on this thread.
He suggested the Standard GP5000 with a latex tube which would be the same weight as a GP5000TT with latex tube but measurably slower.
In theory Your less likely to picture though but the same could be said for Gatorskins.
According to BRR, the original gp5000 is actually heavier than the gp5000 TT TR (221g vs 210g).
I have some of each in the basement and the 5000tr is 250g vs 210 for the 5000TT, both 700x25.
I if you aren’t going to run tubeless, I would go with the Corsa Speed. It is the only fast tire with a puncture belt (that I know of), though I am not sure how effective these actually are.
If you really want to know what the fastest tire combo is, you should see if you can find a picture of Dan Bigham’s bike from the mixed TT at World’s. Last year he was running the Power Cup on the front and a Corsa Speed on the rear with a 23x25 staggered sizing. He may have switched to GP5000TTs this year because they are a) faster b) more flat resistant on the kind of rough World’s course c) he gets the 5000s for free now and the overall drag/Crr is a wash.
To be fair the real standard for comparison would probably be the Supersonic, not the clincher version of the 5000
Good thought experiment.
23mm SS: 180g (measured weight, BRR)
25mm 5000TT: 210g (measured weight, BRR)
SS+ Vittoria latex = 255g
5KTT + 30g sealant + 20g stem = 260g
Pretty much a tie.
And that’s 23mm vs 25mm.
Gp5000 TT
Vitoria corsa speeds
^^^^ this.
stupid question.
Is the gp5000 tt, which is marked tr, suitable as clincher (with a tube inside)?
The Continental Grand Prix 5000 TT TR tire is a tubeless tire, but you can put a tube in it.
However, it would be smarter to use a standard clincher tire because it would weigh less.
such as what tire ?
You’re better off ignoring Jimatbeyond his advice only really works inside his own head. I’m surprised he hasn’t suggested short cranks on this thread.
He suggested the Standard GP5000 with a latex tube which would be the same weight as a GP5000TT with latex tube but measurably slower.
In theory Your less likely to picture though but the same could be said for Gatorskins.
According to BRR, the original gp5000 is actually heavier than the gp5000 TT TR (221g vs 210g).
I have some of each in the basement and the 5000tr is 250g vs 210 for the 5000TT, both 700x25.
I if you aren’t going to run tubeless, I would go with the Corsa Speed. It is the only fast tire with a puncture belt (that I know of), though I am not sure how effective these actually are.
If you really want to know what the fastest tire combo is, you should see if you can find a picture of Dan Bigham’s bike from the mixed TT at World’s. Last year he was running the Power Cup on the front and a Corsa Speed on the rear with a 23x25 staggered sizing. He may have switched to GP5000TTs this year because they are a) faster b) more flat resistant on the kind of rough World’s course c) he gets the 5000s for free now and the overall drag/Crr is a wash.
Curious what test resulted in the GP5000TTs being faster than the Corsa Speed?
Gp5000 TT
Vitoria corsa speeds
^^^^ this.
stupid question.
Is the gp5000 tt, which is marked tr, suitable as clincher (with a tube inside)?
The Continental Grand Prix 5000 TT TR tire is a tubeless tire, but you can put a tube in it.
However, it would be smarter to use a standard clincher tire because it would weigh less.
such as what tire ?
You’re better off ignoring Jimatbeyond his advice only really works inside his own head. I’m surprised he hasn’t suggested short cranks on this thread.
He suggested the Standard GP5000 with a latex tube which would be the same weight as a GP5000TT with latex tube but measurably slower.
In theory Your less likely to picture though but the same could be said for Gatorskins.
According to BRR, the original gp5000 is actually heavier than the gp5000 TT TR (221g vs 210g).
I have some of each in the basement and the 5000tr is 250g vs 210 for the 5000TT, both 700x25.
I if you aren’t going to run tubeless, I would go with the Corsa Speed. It is the only fast tire with a puncture belt (that I know of), though I am not sure how effective these actually are.
If you really want to know what the fastest tire combo is, you should see if you can find a picture of Dan Bigham’s bike from the mixed TT at World’s. Last year he was running the Power Cup on the front and a Corsa Speed on the rear with a 23x25 staggered sizing. He may have switched to GP5000TTs this year because they are a) faster b) more flat resistant on the kind of rough World’s course c) he gets the 5000s for free now and the overall drag/Crr is a wash.
Curios what test resulted in the GP5000TTs being faster than the Corsa Speed?
The GP5000TT seems to always have a higher Crr. My guess though is that CdA is much more important, especially at ProTour and hour record speeds. The older AeroCoach results have the Corsa Speeds as fast or faster than other tires using combined Crr and CdA, with what they save in Crr being lost in CdA. Nevertheless, I think their test speed was about 30mph. Rolling resistance increases linearly while aero is quadratic or cubic (can’t remember off the top of my head), so at Ganna speeds, CdA trumps Crr. For the rest of us mortals, Crr is probably a bigger factor than absolute CdA.
Pretty much a tie.
Yes, but to his point, the Supersonic would have a weight advantage if both were run with tubes and would be on par (in a smaller section) in terms of rolling resistance. That smaller section could easily tip the scales on a fair number of wheels.
I have some of each in the basement and the 5000tr is 250g vs 210 for the 5000TT, both 700x25.
I if you aren’t going to run tubeless, I would go with the Corsa Speed. It is the only fast tire with a puncture belt (that I know of), though I am not sure how effective these actually are.
If you really want to know what the fastest tire combo is, you should see if you can find a picture of Dan Bigham’s bike from the mixed TT at World’s. Last year he was running the Power Cup on the front and a Corsa Speed on the rear with a 23x25 staggered sizing. He may have switched to GP5000TTs this year because they are a) faster b) more flat resistant on the kind of rough World’s course c) he gets the 5000s for free now and the overall drag/Crr is a wash.
We are talking about the original gp 5000 before there was a 5000 s tr. The original gp 5000 came out in 2018 with 2 versions. A non tubeless version (gp 5000) and tubeless version (gp 5000 tl). The non tubeless version actually rolled faster than the TL did setup tubeless.
I ran corsa speeds last year without issue. I’m not training/racing right now but I would like to try out the new 5000tt whenever I get back. I was big fan of the supersonic and tt back in the day and ran them for several years.
The GP5000TT seems to always have a higher Crr. My guess though is that CdA is much more important, especially at ProTour and hour record speeds. The older AeroCoach results have the Corsa Speeds as fast or faster than other tires using combined Crr and CdA, with what they save in Crr being lost in CdA. Nevertheless, I think their test speed was about 30mph. Rolling resistance increases linearly while aero is quadratic or cubic (can’t remember off the top of my head), so at Ganna speeds, CdA trumps Crr. For the rest of us mortals, Crr is probably a bigger factor than absolute CdA.
FWIW, a larger wheel manufacturer sent me some data to compare their old wheel to a new wheel. It seems they wanted to provide data for their GP customers and their Vittoria customers. So old wheel, new wheel, GP5000 TT, Corsa speed : 4 combinations. From an aero perspective it was almost a tie UP UNTIL -7.5, 7.5 yaw, beyond which the GP5000 pulled away very clearly.
The GP5000TT seems to always have a higher Crr. My guess though is that CdA is much more important, especially at ProTour and hour record speeds. The older AeroCoach results have the Corsa Speeds as fast or faster than other tires using combined Crr and CdA, with what they save in Crr being lost in CdA. Nevertheless, I think their test speed was about 30mph. Rolling resistance increases linearly while aero is quadratic or cubic (can’t remember off the top of my head), so at Ganna speeds, CdA trumps Crr. For the rest of us mortals, Crr is probably a bigger factor than absolute CdA.
FWIW, a larger wheel manufacturer sent me some data to compare their old wheel to a new wheel. It seems they wanted to provide data for their GP customers and their Vittoria customers. So old wheel, new wheel, GP5000 TT, Corsa speed : 4 combinations. From an aero perspective it was almost a tie UP UNTIL -7.5, 7.5 yaw, beyond which the GP5000 pulled away very clearly.
Thanks for the info. That is really interesting. I guess I am not surprised. All the open tubulars seem to have that drastic lip where the tread is glued to the casing. It would seem like the solution would be to taper the tread thickness to more smoothly transition into the casing/sidewall, but that is probably more easily said than done.
Yeah, lost the plot slightly on his point. Though if talking about actual in-production tires, only a couple where his criteria apply.
Even if the TT was heavier, I’d still run them over the original 5000.
I would too! In fact I did and even switched to a heavier 28mm rear as the weight has such little relevance.
With about 10w of rolling resistance difference I was curious what logic could justify the old tire
Where/how do you get 10w?
I’m wondering, I see rather 4w on aerocoach data and 3w on bicyclerollingresistance when comparing a pair for a latex tube GP5000 clincher vs a GP5000 TT TLR.