Would you be able to tell one (road) group set from the other just by feel?
Sergio
I think you can tell in some places. I think the Force front derailleur is better. But I think the Red rings shift better. You will see that a lot - force FD with red everywhere else. Lance has a custom FD that is a hybrid, with the stiffer Force cage.
The RED RD is awesome. I love it. I think it’s the most POW of all the SRAM derailleurs. The RED rear cassette (powerdome) is also nice because it’s very light, but it’s steel, so it’ lasts. Also easy to clean since there are no gaps between cogs. But it doesn’t actually perform any better.
I’ve never used the RED DoubleTap levers, so I can’t comment there.
Overall, I think the RED grouppo is nicer everywhere than the FD, where I think the Force FD is a bit better because it is stiffer (steel vs. titanium cage). But they are always making updates, so my experience with Force may be different than the 2010 version, as they are always making upgrades.
Generally, I think Rival way outperforms it’s price relative to Force. Same with Force relative to RED. That’s always the way. You pay a lot for small improvements. The RED RD is the first upgrade I’d make. Then the RED crankset. After that it’s smaller and smaller changes.
Generally, I think Rival way outperforms it’s price relative to Force. Same with Force relative to RED. That’s always the way. You pay a lot for small improvements. The RED RD is the first upgrade I’d make. Then the RED crankset. After that it’s smaller and smaller changes.
The law of diminishing marginal returns. The question is: If you feel that there is at least a bit of an improvement… where do you stop? 
Thanks Jordan.
Sergio
If you are talking about the 2010 Red vs. Force, I would pick up the Force for sure. The older Force was a bit different which I have one of my bikes and I have Red on my other bike. I can tell the difference in the shifting between the two for sure and the Red is better.
2010 is a different story and I would be hard pressed to tell the difference.
Not sure about 2010 line, but the in the earlier version the Force FD was trimable only in the small chainring while Red was only trimable in the large ring.
What is the weight difference between Red and Force? Per SRAM Website Force weighs 1951g but the Red weight does not appear to be listed.
Bill
You can’t really go by weight with the 2010 stuff, since most of that diff is in the Red Powerdome rear cassette (that I don’t like anyway).
As was mentioned, prior to 2010, the difference was larger, but now …
I agree with Rappstar in that the Red front rings (aesthetic aside) shift awesome and rear derailleur is right now precise with ceramic bearings vs. reg on Force. The brakes are identical except for finish. The Red brifters have trim on the large ring (nice) and come with Gore ride-on cables. They have red vs. white graphics 
I’ve had zero issues with my Red front Ti derailleur (that I expected to and was planning on changing) after 5K miles. That is about it. It is always about price vs. incremental returns as you mentioned.
If price matters (to you I’m thinking no), get Rival!
Jordan,
In upgrading my bike (as per the how to spend my money thread) one of the items I am considering upgrading is the drive system on my bike, which is Shimano 105 and built for a road setup.
I just purchased an integrated aero cockpit and will need to get aero shifters and wanted to go with the SRAM R2C, which would require me to go with a changeover to a SRAM drivetrain.
From a value perspective, looking at SRAM Force versus SRAM Rival, would you consider the difference enough to warrant the extra few hundred $?
If making the change between the two (i.e. going Rival versus Force) it would simply mean downgrading my front wheel choice from a Zipp 404 for example to a Flashpoint to make up the difference.
From a training racing perspective, what do you think would be the better choice, Rival / Flashpoint or Force / Zipp…
Thanks,
Clint
PS Sergio, sorry for the hijack, but this thread was the best I found in my forum search of SRAM Rival versus Force.
Do you already have a powermeter?
Prior to 2010, Red had 2 FD trim positions on the big ring and 1 position on the small. I believe that Force was the opposite, 2 small ring trim positions and 1 big ring position. I don’t know if SRAM changed Force in 2010.
Y
I agree with Rappstar in that the Red front rings (aesthetic aside) shift awesome and rear derailleur is right now precise with ceramic bearings vs. reg on Force…
Those ceramic bearings in the Red derailleur pulleys may not be an advantage over the Force bearings…read the recommended service instructions…
Prior to 2010, Red had 2 FD trim positions on the big ring and 1 position on the small. I believe that Force was the opposite, 2 small ring trim positions and 1 big ring position. I don’t know if SRAM changed Force in 2010.
I’m fairly certain that Force has the same mechanicals as RED. But that was mostly related, IIRC, to reach adjustment. I don’t BELIEVE that there is any variation in the DoubleTap mechanicals between the groups.
Prior to 2010, Red had 2 FD trim positions on the big ring and 1 position on the small. I believe that Force was the opposite, 2 small ring trim positions and 1 big ring position. I don’t know if SRAM changed Force in 2010.
I’m fairly certain that Force has the same mechanicals as RED. But that was mostly related, IIRC, to reach adjustment. I don’t BELIEVE that there is any variation in the DoubleTap mechanicals between the groups.
Yeah, I’m not sure either. I just remember test riding one the first Force build I did on a Cervelo RS a couple of years ago and that was how the FD trim was set up. I haven’t tested a Force bike since that year, but I’ve been riding Red myself since late '08.
Y
I agree with Rappstar in that the Red front rings (aesthetic aside) shift awesome and rear derailleur is right now precise with ceramic bearings vs. reg on Force…
Those ceramic bearings in the Red derailleur pulleys may not be an advantage over the Force bearings…read the recommended service instructions…
Yup - that is what the extra bike/mechanics/shop is for … we all have our professions
Based on various reviews I’ve read the front shifter on Red has the shortest throw of the three groups. I have Rival on my roadie, and while it’s not overly long, I have found myself wishing I didn’t have to push the shifter in so far to get into the big ring.
Not yet - that is part of the purcahse equation.
I have approximately $2,800 U.S. to spend and have budgeted as follows:
Elite + Powermeter on DT Swiss Rim with wheel cover - $1,090 (add taxes / shipping ~ $1,250)
Zipp 404 - $979 (Add taxes / shipping ~ $1,100)
Force Groupset (just received a price of $835 + shipping).
The total there would be approx. $3,185 - $3,300 (depending on shipping / taxes) which is over the budget that I have by about $500.
By changing from the Zipp 404 to Flash Point 60, I would drop from $979 to $689 ($290), which would still have me over budget by a couple hundred but much closer…Is there a different wheel that would make an excellent training / racing wheel in Vancouver that I should consider that would be in the $400 - $500 range?
Based on the price I am getting for the Force Groupset, it appears I would only save minimally by going with the Rival from the Ebay store that is quoting me…
Keep in mind, all prices are based on purchasing new equipment above, which is somewhat important for me as I have a large fear of purchasing items at these prices used whether it be on ST forums or Ebay…
Thanks and look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Agree on the FD statement. The Red isn;t stiff enough and was causing problems shifting on my bike so I switch to the Force FD and voila, no problems.
Bob
I just bought a wired powertap from competitive cyclist for $600, think excel sports had the same price on that item. Seemed like a good savings compared to what you were giving up.
Anything I have ever had with wires on the bike got severed.
Too nervous for that.
Not yet - that is part of the purcahse equation.
I have approximately $2,800 U.S. to spend and have budgeted as follows:
Elite + Powermeter on DT Swiss Rim with wheel cover - $1,090 (add taxes / shipping ~ $1,250)
Zipp 404 - $979 (Add taxes / shipping ~ $1,100)
Force Groupset (just received a price of $835 + shipping).
The total there would be approx. $3,185 - $3,300 (depending on shipping / taxes) which is over the budget that I have by about $500.
By changing from the Zipp 404 to Flash Point 60, I would drop from $979 to $689 ($290), which would still have me over budget by a couple hundred but much closer…Is there a different wheel that would make an excellent training / racing wheel in Vancouver that I should consider that would be in the $400 - $500 range?
Based on the price I am getting for the Force Groupset, it appears I would only save minimally by going with the Rival from the Ebay store that is quoting me…
Keep in mind, all prices are based on purchasing new equipment above, which is somewhat important for me as I have a large fear of purchasing items at these prices used whether it be on ST forums or Ebay…
Thanks and look forward to hearing your thoughts.
Get both Rival AND a FlashPoint (80, IMO) front wheel and come in AT your budget. That’s my suggestion. Neither Force or Zipp is worth exceeding your budget for. Rival and FlashPoint both are excellent, and I’d never tell someone to spend more than they felt they could for Force or Zipp over Rival or FlashPoint.