I am having trouble finding one of his podcasts which focused on sodium supplementation and how it isn’t really necessary. Some chemical is inhibited when a sports drink is consumed causing sodium to be released in sweat. And on the contrary when just water is consumed the chemical is released causing our body to recycle the sodium in our body.
something along those lines.
anyone know where to find that?
Noakes and I are talking next Wednesday in detail about his book Waterlogged, and I’ll release that podcast soon thereafter. But in meantime, for the previous electrolytes/water podcast I did with him, go to:
I have no idea what you are talking about or what Ben was possibly referring to in the podcast, but on the whole, the obsession with salt in-take and that it’s a total cure-all, for cramping in endurance athletes, has an extraordinary weak link, at the very best. Therefore the obsession, and the many companies cashing in on it all, is a bit miss-guided to be kind about it. Dr. Tim Noakes has much stronger words for it, if you do a bit of a search.
Ben,
Great news. Look forward to your chat with Dr. Noakes. Hopefully, anyone here with questions about endurance sports hydration and related subject matter will give that a listen.
My copy of waterlogged should arrive just in time for me to take it to Maui this week. Been following Dr. Naokes stuff closely the past 12 months or so. I stopped taking any form of electrolyte pills and water down my gatorade by 50% and have had zero cramping issues. All I did was integrate HIIT twice a wek into my training protocol. Get my calories from Generation UCAN and an occasional gel and its been working really well. Eating a moderately salty paleo/primal diet seems to be the ticket for me.
Dave
I don’t buy into this salt / cramping theory either. My first season of triathlon was filled with cramps. Now I have no debilitating cramping. The only change is increased fitness and more stretching. I drink G2 since it is way less calories and easier to drink than the original stuff. If I’m using regular G I dilute it. Sometimes I dilute G2. I have plenty of fat cells for fuel.
I also sweat profusely and a high saline percentage. I turn into a salt lick when I dry out. Cramps, not anymore. Your results may vary, but I’d agree the link between salt and cramping is mostly speculation or placebo effect.
It’s hard to know what to believe. IIRC when I read Macca’s book he mentioned pre-loading with electrolytes (before long course races) after talking to someone who’s opinion he respected in the body building world. The top guys in IM seem to talk about salt tablets as thought it’s de rigeur during races too. IMO if you can, you have to find out what works for you through experimentation.
Just to keep a balanced discussion going here, its worth remembering that Noakes is just one scientist among many and his viewpoint is in the minority. The interpretation of his results is also something that should be regarded as at least partly subjective (true of all science) and not at all the final word on this.
I, for one, had major problems with water balance and cramping for over a decade. When I began using salt supplements these problems completely disappeared. Just one data point, but for me, I trust that the results are meaningful enough for me to continue.
Crowie has been seen at pre-Ironman dinners liberally applying salt to his food so it may not be needed but I dont think it hurts too much because if you have otherwise healthy kidneys they will excrete the excess.
How long have you been using UCAN and how is it working out for you? What do you mix it with?
I have been interested with trying it since it was discussed on another Ben Greenfield podcast, wich by the way is one of the best podcasts out there.
I, for one, had major problems with water balance and cramping for over a decade. When I began using salt supplements these problems completely disappeared. Just one data point, but for me, I trust that the results are meaningful enough for me to continue.
My biggest beef is the strong assertion that thirst is a reliable indicator of need for hydration. Maybe I’m n=1, but in hot weather I can sweat at 2 liters/hour, and if I wait until I feel thirsty, I’m usually in deep, deep trouble, and my race is over. I have to drink early and often on the bike in a 70.3 or IM if I expect to finish the race.
Two quick things. One, don’t compare what pro’s do in an Ironman to us age groupers as far as sodium supplementation. They are working at much higher intensity then we are. Second, I agree that thirst is very individual, but I would hazard a guess that more people could use drink to thirst as opposed to drink to time if they tried it.
Never used salt in my life at any race, and have never had an issue during the run. Now, mentally, the mind can do strange things, so if someone thinks salt helps them, the mind might help them.
thirst is the bodies response to dehydration, not impending dehydration. If you’re thirsty, you’re already at a deficit.
generally speaking, not a good idea to wait till thirsty to drink.
How long have you been using UCAN and how is it working out for you? What do you mix it with?
I have been interested with trying it since it was discussed on another Ben Greenfield podcast, wich by the way is one of the best podcasts out there.
I have been using the GUCAN for about 4 months. Started using it to see if my GI issues could be controlled during my first 50K in March. Every IM I did (2006-2009) I had seriously bloated gut issues by mile 10 of the marathon. I used it again at the American River 50 miler and again my gut had no issues. Last weekend I did the 3 day training runs on the last 73 miles of the Western States Trail (32/19/22). I took a serving of GUCAN 45 minutes before starting and again every 3 hours. In between I took in one gel every 45 minutes. (about 133 cal/hr) My gut was in great shape and very happy. I used to fart every 5 seconds while running long distances and now I hardly ever do. I think I have found what works for me. From talking to others who have been successful in implementing the transition to UCAN, a high fat diet and being “keto-adapted” helps it work better. I eat lots of MCT oils and fats.
Good luck.
Dave
Two quick things. One, don’t compare what pro’s do in an Ironman to us age groupers as far as sodium supplementation. They are working at much higher intensity then we are. Second, I agree that thirst is very individual, but I would hazard a guess that more people could use drink to thirst as opposed to drink to time if they tried it.
I’d submit that AG’ers such as yourself (9hr-10hrs) and the pros in the same race are very likely working at the same relative intensity. They are simply faster, either through better training or better natural ability or likely a combination of both.
Performance has been shown to decrease at even 1% body weight loss in fluids. I personally would not take any chances waiting until I’m thirsty.
I take salt tabs to fend off heat stress, not cramps. When I don’t take them, and it’s very hot out, I start to feel dizzy / ‘out of it’ after 2 hours of an intense workout. When I do take them, I feel focused and centered. It could be the placebo effect, and if it is, that’s fine with me.
It’s hard to know what to believe. IIRC when I read Macca’s book he mentioned pre-loading with electrolytes (before long course races) after talking to someone who’s opinion he respected in the body building world. The top guys in IM seem to talk about salt tablets as thought it’s de rigeur during races too. IMO if you can, you have to find out what works for you through experimentation.
Well I think Macca is spot on and I’m completely on board with liberal use of electrolytes during race week. For example, I threw a bottle of trace minerals into my bike box when I went to Honu this week, and I did 2 servings per day of that + 1-2 nuun tablets each day. But during the actual race, I used no electrolytes - simply because high electrolyte intake can drive excessive sodium loss. I’d rather just amp up my stores beforehand and then let my body do it’s own regulation during.
That, combined with drinking to thirst, works quite well - and it’s how I’ve been coaching my athletes for the past year-and-a-half, with no dehydration or hyponatremia issues.
I finished Waterlogged last week. Noakes goes a little overboard on the anecdotes and research, and the book probably could have been half as long, but it’s an excellent and through provoking read, IMO.