Hi Twitchers,
Looking for feedback on BB30 experiences and techniques that solved the inherent creak factor. I am looking for good practices/techniques for just using the bearings and C clips only (loctite, aftermarket bearings, etc.). Has anybody had any long term success using the bearings only without having to resort to aftermarket BB assemblies such as Praxis or Wheels MFG solutions?
Thanks for sharing your insights!
G
Variances in the frame are the devil here.
Some frames will simply never creak.
Little bit of grease, pressed in square and they are as good as any BB standard, although seals tend to be exposed and wet weather riders will kill bearings faster than something like a well sealed Shimano BB.
The problems occur with with frames that have been distorted by bearings not being pressed in square or the frame out of tolerance for either diameter. ovality or misalignment between bearings on each side.
Some bikes from new simply lack grease and will creak early and a quick change of bearings with a bit of grease and they will be fine.
When you remove these bearings they must be replaced though. they cannot be reused.
A small oversize, up to .5mm or so is easily fixed with locktight as is a little bit of ovality.
Misalignment will require the manufacturer to man up and replace the shitty frame or fitting of an aftermarket screw together type unit.
This is far rarer than most people believe.
Too much ovality or oversize and then a warranty replacement is really called for or glue the fuck out of it and know you will curse it when it is time to change it.
By far the biggest problem is self inflicted distortion of the shell by poor fitting practices.
This includes tapping bearings in with a hammer or pressing both bearings in at the same time and getting things crooked and distorting the shell.
You can see the marks in carbon frames from this, a series of moon shaped depressions permanently left in the shell.
Locktight used in conjunction with a primer will usually fix this along with the slightly out of spec shells.
Some bikes though that have been ridden a long time creaking will always creak and this is what gives the standard a bad name.
If it is a new bike, get it sorted immediately, if it doesn’t get sorted, demand a new frame.
Just to add, some times it is the metal to metal contact between bearing and crank that is the problem.
Some cranks, pointing a finger at Rotor here, are just a little bit lax on their tolerances and have been the bane of Cervelo owners everywhere.
Usually fitting another major manufacturers crank will cure the problem.
lyrrad,
I just want to thank you for such a detailed post. I am about to install my first BB30 and this will really help me be more careful.
Interesting! As a matter of fact, you can add my name to the N of cervelo owner + Rotor crank user. Thanks for the info.
Cheers,
G
By far the biggest problem is self inflicted distortion of the shell by poor fitting practices.
This includes tapping bearings in with a hammer or pressing both bearings in at the same time and getting things crooked and distorting the shell.
You can see the marks in carbon frames from this, a series of moon shaped depressions permanently left in the shell.
Locktight used in conjunction with a primer will usually fix this along with the slightly out of spec shells.
This. If you’re going to do the work yourself buy a decent press and removal tool* and learn where to buy quality bearings in “bulk”
*I have the WheelsMfg press and Park Tools removal tool and would recommend both
I just ended up switching to a threaded Wheels Manufacturing pressfit 30 bottom bracket and that solved the problems. I also switched to Dura-Ace from the Sram BB30 I was using. I hate wavy washers as there is always a minute amount of side-to-side play.
If you really don’t want to buy a new bottom bracket, then the best you can do is pull the cups, put on loctite, and hope that works.
I use the Park tools bearing press with cups to fit and press one side at a time.
The press will maintain alignment courtesy of the flat face of the BB on the other side.
I do all press fit types this way and cringe when I see anybody pressing both bearings in at the same time.
I also agree that the Wheels MFG bottom bracket is the best option for press fit bottom brackets.
Every single one of my bikes that I currently own has a Wheels MFG BB installed. As the OP, I wanted to see what current trends/improvements (if any) to a pure install of BB30/BB30A bearing systems.
Cheers,
G
I run Shimano cranks so I used the Praxis adapter on two different bikes. No creaking at all
Lyrrad really nailed it. The most important part is that we are often our own worst enemy. Installation error seems to really cause a bit of the problems and we expect the frame manufacturer to pay for our mistakes. I have had two BB30 frames, both with Rotor cranks and haven’t experienced any issues thank goodness. I have a friend with the first year P5 who worked years as a mechanic and couldn’t get that bottom bracket interface to behave as intended though (in addition to all the paint overspray in there). Maybe there’s also a small degree of luck in there too. Four of my current bikes are some variation of press fit between BB30, PF30 and BB386 without anything beyond the ‘stock’ cups and basic 6806 bearings from a couple different popular sources.
Lyrrad really nailed it. The most important part is that we are often our own worst enemy. Installation error seems to really cause a bit of the problems and we expect the frame manufacturer to pay for our mistakes. I have had two BB30 frames, both with Rotor cranks and haven’t experienced any issues thank goodness. I have a friend with the first year P5 who worked years as a mechanic and couldn’t get that bottom bracket interface to behave as intended though (in addition to all the paint overspray in there). Maybe there’s also a small degree of luck in there too. Four of my current bikes are some variation of press fit between BB30, PF30 and BB386 without anything beyond the ‘stock’ cups and basic 6806 bearings from a couple different popular sources.
I have all the tools to remove and install BBright, PF30, and BB30 systems. I’ve actually never run a pure bearing and clips system. I would like to, but it seems that experiences are all over the map with this.
My protocol has always been to replace the inevitable creaky factory installed BB. The most curious thing I have encountered is my alloy Air9 Niner came with a PF30 standard that had bearing shoulders milled in the shell. Anybody ever run across this? My RDO Air9 has a smooth bore PF30 shell which is what I expected to see.
Cheers,
G
I think asking us to “share our insights” won’t do much to sway your practices (not that they are wrong or should be changed) when sticking to terms like “inherent creak factor” or “inevitable creaky factory installed BB.” It sounds like you have found what works for you and works for many others as well.
You don’t have to use the clip and bearing method. I certainly wouldn’t if I was uncomfortable with it. I’m not sure there’s any tips/tricks/magic other than use the right tools, do one bearing at a time, don’t try to over-tighten it into the frame, and go slooow.
If you try it and want to glue the F out of it, then use Loctite 243.
I’m curious because I have a pending Cannondale road bike build that comes with a BB30A BB. New methods, new compounds, new bearing designs could be presently out there that might solve some of the past issues. Thought I’d ask the questions and see what’s possible (if anything).
Cheers,
G
Go slow and remove all the opportunities for issues to arise and BB30 is good.
Use quality bearings to start with. Loc-tite to properly set. Press in one at a time. Grease properly.
LET IT SET UP. The Loc-tite takes 24hrs to properly set, and too many people I find even when using this approach don’t heed to recommendation.
I too use the park tools gear for installing and have found they work really well.
Hi Twitchers,
Looking for feedback on BB30 experiences and techniques that solved the inherent creak factor. I am looking for good practices/techniques for just using the bearings and C clips only (loctite, aftermarket bearings, etc.). Has anybody had any long term success using the bearings only without having to resort to aftermarket BB assemblies such as Praxis or Wheels MFG solutions?
Thanks for sharing your insights!
G
At the risk of sounding conceited, my post should be the last one here. You need Red N Tacky. End of story.
It is available for about $6 at auto parts stores. It is a thick red grease. You use it on the threads of the 10mm allen bolt, you cover the bearings in it before you put the crank on, you can even use it on the threads of your chainring bolts. It will take away all noise.
Side note, use it where your rear skewer contacts your frame. I have had BB30-like-creak come from that interface as well.
Good luck!
Hi Twitchers,
Looking for feedback on BB30 experiences and techniques that solved the inherent creak factor. I am looking for good practices/techniques for just using the bearings and C clips only (loctite, aftermarket bearings, etc.). Has anybody had any long term success using the bearings only without having to resort to aftermarket BB assemblies such as Praxis or Wheels MFG solutions?
Thanks for sharing your insights!
G
At the risk of sounding conceited, my post should be the last one here. You need Red N Tacky. End of story.
It is available for about $6 at auto parts stores. It is a thick red grease. You use it on the threads of the 10mm allen bolt, you cover the bearings in it before you put the crank on, you can even use it on the threads of your chainring bolts. It will take away all noise.
Side note, use it where your rear skewer contacts your frame. I have had BB30-like-creak come from that interface as well.
Good luck!
Glue up is last resort.
The system should work correctly with just grease.
If gluing then be sure to use the primer.
DO NOT GREASE YOUR REAR AXLE where it interfaces with the dropout.
If it is creaking, it is moving or already worn.
Greasing it will only make it worse.
This is a dry interface, just keep it clean and use skewers that have appropriate strength,
If there is movement, catch it early and repair the dropout early before it is longer a reasonable repair.
Again, stop making problems for yourself.
My protocol has always been to replace the inevitable creaky factory installed BB. The most curious thing I have encountered is my alloy Air9 Niner came with a PF30 standard that had bearing shoulders milled in the shell. Anybody ever run across this? My RDO Air9 has a smooth bore PF30 shell which is what I expected to see.
If there are channels then it is like a regular BB30 frame without clips installed. Pressfit BB30 should be a smooth bore all the way through. If you were going to use any of the threaded pressfit options, you would need a completely smooth inside.