Question for you all. Before I did IM CDA in 2003 (working backwards from that race) 18 week training program.6 months of aerobic base,9 hrs cardio a week holding HR in 140’s (I was 43 then)and 1 and a half years of 6 to 8 hrs a week fitness and cross traing(couple of short tri’s and a marathon).Since IM took a week off and have been swimming three time a week(3+miles)running(a 6 a7 and a11.5 mile) a week and biking (3hrs)a week.all at different heart rates. Here is my question. Do I still need to do an aerobic base again,where I spend a couple months of never going above my aerobic threshold?(Was using the Mark Allen formula of 180 minus your age and + 5 if your fit for aerobic HR basebuilding)Or since I never really took time off is that necessary of important? It seems like my HR is or has been slowly climbing of where its a little higher for an exerted effort or time as to where it was,not sure though. Thanks for any answers Ken
Wow, this is a good, specific question but I doubt I have a very good answer for you. Anecdotally I can tell you that with that kind of excellent base building it is unlkely you would need to entirely re-build your base. You did it right the first time to my knowledge. I’m not a coach, but based on personal experience I have had to rely on my previously established base in a few events when I didn’t have time to adequately prepare. -Sorry I’m not of more use to you.
Thank you Tom…One more question for you. My avg bike speed for CDA was 17.3mph.My goal for next year is about 18.6mph(want to be under 6hrs). Have one year of actual biking(2000 mile) and a year of spinning classes and stationary bikes. I can only afford one purchase,what would you recommend for most improvement,rollers(learn technique)or a trainer(gain strength). Any opinions on which type? (cyclops,kreitler ect…) Thanks again for your time. Kenney
Question for you all. Before I did IM CDA in 2003 (working backwards from that race) 18 week training program.6 months of aerobic base,9 hrs cardio a week holding HR in 140’s (I was 43 then)and 1 and a half years of 6 to 8 hrs a week fitness and cross traing(couple of short tri’s and a marathon).Since IM took a week off and have been swimming three time a week(3+miles)running(a 6 a7 and a11.5 mile) a week and biking (3hrs)a week.all at different heart rates. Here is my question. Do I still need to do an aerobic base again,where I spend a couple months of never going above my aerobic threshold?(Was using the Mark Allen formula of 180 minus your age and + 5 if your fit for aerobic HR basebuilding)Or since I never really took time off is that necessary of important? It seems like my HR is or has been slowly climbing of where its a little higher for an exerted effort or time as to where it was,not sure though. That formula would never work for me. It would put me @153 hr for basebuilding. I only see that when doing a tempo run or intervals on the track. I think you need to find the number that definitely suits you. Check out gordo’s site: www.byrn.org There are tips on how to find this. In fact, ask this question there. This is exactly the kind of question that is routinely answered there. I’d say you still need to do a base period, but definitely not 6 months again! Check Gordo’s site or www.cruciblefitness.com Both are good training sites.
I think your base is fine. If it was me, I might ease into any interval training at first but it’s not like you are starting from zero or coming off a rest period. On the HR zones, be careful with formulas. They only work percentage of the people out there and it seems to me that at least half of the people I meet don’t have HRs that work with those formulas. There’s a bunch: 220-age, mark allens, and some other more complucated ones. The best, do a nice warmup, then throw in some hard intervals. This can be done running, biking or swimming although I personally don’t care about my swimming HR. Example: Running-2mile warm up, then 5x400m with a short rest of 1-1:30, you’re only doing 5 so you can go pretty hard and all out on the last twoo. Check out your max HR on the last two, add 5bpm and you’ll probably have a good approximate. Myself, I’m 24 but can easily crank my heart up to 225 running intervals, and mid 190s cycling. According to the formulas my max should be around 196 or so…
How long have you been at this? I find that in the off-season (or during season for that matter) I rarely use a heart rate monitor. Instead, I just run by feel. If you have been at this long enough you know, based on how you’re feeling that day, whether you’re running in the right zone or not. I also find that, coming from a running background, I have to run far too slowly to have my heart rate stay low enough to fit in all those formulated base-building zones. When I run that slowly it screws up my stride and causes my legs to hurt so I’d rather be smooth and have my heart rate be a little higher. It also helps if you have someone to train with. If you can eaily carry on a conversation, then you’re running in the right zone.
From what I have read and others have told me,it is important to stay just aerobic for a long period of time(base building)to acquire a more efficiant fat burning engine. To become faster at a lower HR. It seems that since IM the HR that i can carry a conversation with is higher now,that is the reason for my question.In other words maybe my engine in aerobic mode is not as effeciant. I was comfortable with the ranges I trained in last year,I am just concerned that to be efficient as possible I need to go back to an extended period of aerobic only activity again before my 18 week program fro IM CDA 2004. Thanks again. Hope this clears things up. It is hard to explain clearly when inexperianced and not the most knowlegeable. Ken
It might help to build sport specific strength into your programs. Running lots of hills and riding long climbs if possible or just lots of hills. I personally would add cruise intervals (race pace + :5-10 sec per half mile) into both the bike and run. Most athletes spend all this time getting fast then let go of it during the offseason and base period. You have spent all that work on building your LT why not keep it up there with a few cruise intervals?
My view is that building a strong / deep base is probably the single most important thing, especially for 1/2 ironman and longer. The more time you can spend on the base the better, especially if your goal is to perform better than last year. So spending the same amount of time and effort, or even longer, on base mileage can’t hurt.
“It seems that since IM the HR that i can carry a conversation with is higher now,that is the reason for my question.In other words maybe my engine in aerobic mode is not as effeciant.”
I wouldn’t make that assumption right away. The HR you can carry on a conversation at is normally some reasonably fixed percentage of your Aerobic Threshold HR, eg 7 on a 1 to 10 Perceived Exertion scale. (PE correlates well to AT in trained individuals.) So the fact that you can carry on a conversation at a higher HR indicates that your AT has been raised, generally that is a good thing.
Where the efficiency comes in to play is really down to your power / speed at a given HR. I don’t know if you did any test workouts during the year to track that, but there are some simple ones that you can do, as long as you have a basic HR monitor that can track peak & average HR. eg run 5k at 10k race pace, record HR’s, do that regularly (every 3-4 weeks), on the same course or on the track, and at the same pace. You can adjust the exact distance as you see fit, but the test set needs to be long enough that it is definitely aerobic and your HR has time to adjust. On the bike, do a similar exercise, preferably using a power meter or Computrainer.
Hope that helps
J
I’ve never done an IM, but I have done several 1/2’s and have been training with an IM in mind, so keep my comments in perspective.
- If you want to get faster, then an off season is mandatory. Probably something like 4 weeks without formal training.
- You are not experienced enough to skip base. Given that your level of experience and speed is not all that different from mine, you might do better to do nothing but base or 1 period of build.
- Go to www.trainingbible.com or Gordo’s site and get a better method for determining your HR range.
- Buy the Triathlete’s Training Bible by Joe Friel. Read it cover to cover, then go back and re-read the sections you need to cover again. When you have done this, read Going Long by Gordo and Friel. Also, use the trainingbible web site and message forum.
I was recently struck by an incident which anecdotally convinced me once again of the effectiveness of base training. A moderately fast and experienced IM AG friend rode a 1/2 IM course in training in 3:15. I rode it in training in 3:40, ouch. On race day I beat him by something like 10’ on the bike and murdered him on the run. He was training too hard. Think about it, I trained on the course in 3:40 and then rode a 3:10 during the race and probably should have ridden a little harder.
It may seem like an overly simplistic view, but I suspect that most people who do Ironman distance racing never need to do anything but base miles.
My reasoning? From what I have seen, most people cannot run the entire 26 miles of the Ironman marathon. Why? I suspect it is because they did not train enough. So until you can complete the entire marathon without having to walk (not counting feed zones and throw-up breaks) then training anaerobically is pointless.
A friend of mine does nothing but base miles, races three or four times at half-IM distance and regularly finishes the half-IMs in 4:30 and under. He finishes his IMs in 10 hours and it seems to be all he needs. I can beat him at events shorter than 90 minutes, but after that he is untouchable.Sooo…I think that miles, miles, and more miles is the key to success. The more the merrier.
From what I read about you so far you want to improve IM bike split next year to under six hours. I therefore assume you want to improve you IM time as well.
Looking at the nature of an IM event - it is very aerobic. So YES, you should improve your aerobic capacity. If you think about it, the aerobic energy system is the major limiter in your performance thus far. Just think of every aerobic sesssion as a stimulator for:
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increased capillary density: more blood vessels for oxygen and nutrient delivery to muscles and increased rate of “waste” removal
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increased number of mitochondria: required for ATP production
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increased concentration and activity of enzymes (CS, SDH,): required for ATP (energy) production. therefore more efficient.
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other reasons…
so YES, I would definitely suggest that you continue working on your aerobic energy system. the greater the base, the greater your performance eventually. I think that you could benefit far more from doing more aerobic work than fast, anaerobic stuff.
daniel
It may seem like an overly simplistic view, but I suspect that most people who do Ironman distance racing never need to do anything but base miles.
Definitely Agree that lots and lots base miles (aerobic work) should be number 1 priority for all those (including me!). However, it can’t hurt to fast every once in a while, either. Working anaerobically will aid in the increase of Lactate threshold (LT) which is also of importance.