I am able to make it onto the trainer 5-6 times a week for 90 minutes, but would prefer 4 times a week doing 120 minutes per workout to cut down on travel time to the gym. The workouts include no anaerobic work, and are all steady state aerobic at a lower heart rate. Anyone know of any studies regarding which is more beneficial, or are the two relatively similar in terms of results? I am less worried about injury, whereas I likely would be if these were running workouts. Thanks.
I don’t know of any studies, but as a coach, I’d prefer my athlete to do the longer sessions for base. Less of your overall time would be spent warming up, you’d have more recovery time between sessions, and you would have more experience going longer, working on nutrition and mental fortitude.
Didn’t even think about the added warm-up time. Makes sense. Also, my focus this year will be OLY, with a late season 70.3 for fun. Really want my bike to be stronger this year.
Especially since you’re doing OLYs, keep your bike game improving by sprinkling in just the tiniest amount of speedwork during your base training. 5-minute sprints with extreme prejudice here and there. You’ll enjoy some nice benefits from it. You won’t have to completely re-invent your top end speed in the Spring.
My two cents:
Can you get one or two days longer than 2 hours? Maybe 3-4 hours?
In my opinion, 2 hours should be a minimum for a ride for OLY training. Then add in at least one long ride per week. I try to get in a ride that is twice as long as my expected race time. For example, for if training for a 2:15 Oly, ride at least 4:30. The thought behind this is that if you can regularly ride 4+ hours, racing for 2+ hours should feel easier.
If you are following the 4x 2hr plan, this is what I’d recommend. One ride should include a Zone 3 tempo set, Start the temp at 20 or 30 min, and increase time in Zone 3 by 10 min or so each week. This will transition nicely to muscular endurance intervals when your build periods begin. Like already mentioned, one other ride should have some moderate big gear intervals. If you are riding outdoors, and terrain permits, I’d recommend doing some shorter hill climbs along your ride. If you are going to be riding on a trainer, do a few min in a big gear, letting HR get into Zones 4 and 5a. Later in the season, these workouts will transition into more intense intervals.
With all that said, if you can put in that kind of a volume on a trainer, you are a much better person than I.
My two cents:
Can you get one or two days longer than 2 hours? Maybe 3-4 hours?
In my opinion, 2 hours should be a minimum for a ride for OLY training. Then add in at least one long ride per week. I try to get in a ride that is twice as long as my expected race time. For example, for if training for a 2:15 Oly, ride at least 4:30. The thought behind this is that if you can regularly ride 4+ hours, racing for 2+ hours should feel easier.
If you are following the 4x 2hr plan, this is what I’d recommend. One ride should include a Zone 3 tempo set, Start the temp at 20 or 30 min, and increase time in Zone 3 by 10 min or so each week. This will transition nicely to muscular endurance intervals when your build periods begin. Like already mentioned, one other ride should have some moderate big gear intervals. If you are riding outdoors, and terrain permits, I’d recommend doing some shorter hill climbs along your ride. If you are going to be riding on a trainer, do a few min in a big gear, letting HR get into Zones 4 and 5a. Later in the season, these workouts will transition into more intense intervals.
With all that said, if you can put in that kind of a volume on a trainer, you are a much better person than I.
2 hr minimum ride? Last year was my 1st year doing tris, so obviously I have nothing other than my own, very limited experience, and my point of view will probably be viewed as worthless by most on here. That said… After the initial “how the heck do I pedal and switch gears” phase, my starting speed was about 18mph on a road bike before I got my tri bike. I did 3-3.5 hours total (2 rides @ 1hr, 1 ride @~1.5 hr) per week and had a 22mph bike OLY bike split at end of year. I know that’s still fairly MOP by ST standards, but my point is I am not convinced 2 hr min rides and 8 hrs per week are necessary to get FOP for olys. I am 99% sure I am going to get to 23mph for an OLY this year continuing my 3-4 hour bike training load per week, especially if I manage to actually be consistent and also get more than one 2 hr long ride in. I am sure there is a lower ceiling for an age grouper at 3 or 4 hrs per week, but I still have plenty of room to add training load before hitting 8 hrs week, and I think going from 3.5 hrs to 5 hrs, for example, would pay 95% of the dividends (for me personally) that 8 hrs per week could ever pay for oly racing. Who knows though - maybe I just a naive newbie. Just my $.02.
Your total training load is a combination of intensity, frequency and duration. I am a large proponent of frequency in training (especially in running), and Joel Friel’s blog installment actually addresses training consistency (or lack thereof) this week. It’s an interesting read.
Your question was comparing frequency and duration as they relate to the base period. Traditionally, base training is a block of training that concentrates on aerobic development through the use of higher duration riding at a lower intensity. How much development? How much frequency? How much duration?
Your personal schedule will dictate your sustainable training volume, so perhaps a better comparison might be: “Duration and frequency versus your schedule”.
Duration and frequency are not mutually-exclusive as long as you pay attention to the third variable-intensity. I would try to ride as long and frequently as consistently possible during the base period, and the way to do this is to lower the relative intensity of the exercise. Most coaches would recommend an aerobic base period conducted largely in power/HR zone 2.
2 hr minimum ride? Last year was my 1st year doing tris, so obviously I have nothing other than my own, very limited experience, and my point of view will probably be viewed as worthless by most on here. That said… After the initial “how the heck do I pedal and switch gears” phase, my starting speed was about 18mph on a road bike before I got my tri bike. I did 3-3.5 hours total (2 rides @ 1hr, 1 ride @~1.5 hr) per week and had a 22mph bike OLY bike split at end of year. I know that’s still fairly MOP by ST standards, but my point is I am not convinced 2 hr min rides and 8 hrs per week are necessary to get FOP for olys. I am 99% sure I am going to get to 23mph for an OLY this year continuing my 3-4 hour bike training load per week, especially if I manage to actually be consistent and also get more than one 2 hr long ride in. I am sure there is a lower ceiling for an age grouper at 3 or 4 hrs per week, but I still have plenty of room to add training load before hitting 8 hrs week, and I think going from 3.5 hrs to 5 hrs, for example, would pay 95% of the dividends (for me personally) that 8 hrs per week could ever pay for oly racing. Who knows though - maybe I just a naive newbie. Just my $.02.
That is awesome that you were able to get that fast with that low volume.
Just a few responses to what you said.
In my training theory, I use time on the bike to supplement other training time during base periods. The purpose of this is to develop great central conditioning and a huge aerobic base, no so much to get strong on the bike. I am an advocate of large amount of time on the bike because high volume bike training carries a very low risk of injury when compared to a similar volume of running or swimming. Unless an athlete is an established long distance runner, putting in several 3+ hr runs per week is just asking for an injury, same for swimming. Long story short, on a 3+hr bike ride, you are getting your cardiovascular system to the stress level required for adaption for long periods of time with little risk of injury. For example, in my training plan, during a high volume base week (ie last week of a base period), time on the bike is about 75% of my training time. In the build periods, bike volume drops down to 55%.
I am a big believer in LSD base training. To give you an example of what that looks like for me personally, 2 rides at 3 hours, and 1 ride at 5-6 hours, then a 1 hour recovery ride in there too. These rides are low intensity though. Average HR is usually below 135 (Zone 2 for me). As far as pace goes, My goal race speed is 25mph+, and I usually average less than 15 mph on my rides during base training.
There is a whole laundry list of adaptations which occur at long duration, low intensity. But LSD training is really only applicable if you have lots of time to train. I am fortunate to be a single college student, who only has class MWF, so I have lots to time to train, so an 18 hour training week isn’t out of the question for me. Please dont take this as me bagging on your for not training enough, that is not my intention, I am just trying to point out that there is no right answer across the board. What works for my fitness and my schedule may not work for your fitness and your schedule. That said, I do think you would reap great benefits from adding some bike volume, like you said, going to 5 hours would be great.
I am training to be FOP, on the bike atleast, for this year. I will let you know how it works out for me, with my priority races over 4 months away, I am optimistic about my progress.
Let me know if you have any questions, I’m a nerd and love talking about this stuff.
Good point about using it to get massive amounts of overall base training in w/ little injury risk, as right or wrong, I have a tendency to view bike and run in a vacuum. What does your run volume look like when you are putting in those hours on the bike?
You will plateau pretty quick with that little training. For reference only, last week was 17.5 hours from my coach and I’m ONLY bike racing now (that includes some easy running/weights), but you get the idea. You need serious time in the saddle as it gets exponentially harder to get faster.
Some serious periods of intensity doesn’t hurt either 
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Some serious periods of intensity doesn’t hurt either
Yup! Was just having this discussion on a team ride this weekend. Amazing how “intense” riding just below one’s FTP can be this time of year 
Good point about using it to get massive amounts of overall base training in w/ little injury risk, as right or wrong, I have a tendency to view bike and run in a vacuum. What does your run volume look like when you are putting in those hours on the bike?
My run volume is very very very low. 20min 3x a week. That is due to injury though. I’ve been struggling to come back from shin splints for months now, so I have to take it very very easy on the run.
But I have put in my fastest 2 mile to date since putting in more bike time than ever before.
Interesting anecdote: I know two high level cyclists (One is Pro, Other is strong Cat 2). They both came from strong XC running back grounds ~5 years ago before coming to cycling. After several years of cycling training, they both set PRs at a local 5k. I think they were both in the 16 min range. They both only ran twice a week doing speed work on the track only. They attributed their new found speed to not being limited by aerobic conditioning. Not saying this is the way to be a fast triathlete, just an interesting observation.
My two cents:
Can you get one or two days longer than 2 hours? Maybe 3-4 hours?
In my opinion, 2 hours should be a minimum for a ride for OLY training. Then add in at least one long ride per week. I try to get in a ride that is twice as long as my expected race time. For example, for if training for a 2:15 Oly, ride at least 4:30. The thought behind this is that if you can regularly ride 4+ hours, racing for 2+ hours should feel easier.
If you are following the 4x 2hr plan, this is what I’d recommend. One ride should include a Zone 3 tempo set, Start the temp at 20 or 30 min, and increase time in Zone 3 by 10 min or so each week. This will transition nicely to muscular endurance intervals when your build periods begin. Like already mentioned, one other ride should have some moderate big gear intervals. If you are riding outdoors, and terrain permits, I’d recommend doing some shorter hill climbs along your ride. If you are going to be riding on a trainer, do a few min in a big gear, letting HR get into Zones 4 and 5a. Later in the season, these workouts will transition into more intense intervals.
With all that said, if you can put in that kind of a volume on a trainer, you are a much better person than I.
Well what sort of workouts would your 2 hour bike trainer session include?
I did a number of Olympic tris this past year and got top 10% in the bike portion, and I never rode more than 1.5 hours on a trainer. Might be hard for someone just starting out to do 2 hour minimum bike trainer rides. That will be painful and not fun.
For this time of year. Riding the indoor bike for 90 minutes to 2 hours is plenty. I would advise my athletes to put a lot more at Tempo pace., 70%,75%,80%,85 for 10-20 minute sets. As you get closer to the season. I would increase your long ride outside and increase your intensity. The only real reason to do anything more than 2 hours on a trainer at this time of the year is if you have any early season 70.3, or IM race in February or early March. You need to be careful of doing workouts that are high risk factors for burnout. By all means get on the bike but focus on intensity changes and build the endurance when you get back on the road.
what is necessary to get to the FOP is different for everybody. for some, they just roll out of bed drunk and hop on a steel bike and can do it.
what is certain is that at 3.5 hours total of bike training, you still have a lot of low hanging fruit to get better. However I would disagree that 2 hours should be a minimum length of a ride. I mean the hour record was once broken on a regimine of ~three 1 hour all out sessions a week + 7 hours of riding around.
split the time up however is convenient to you.
My two cents:
Can you get one or two days longer than 2 hours? Maybe 3-4 hours?
In my opinion, 2 hours should be a minimum for a ride for OLY training. Then add in at least one long ride per week. I try to get in a ride that is twice as long as my expected race time. For example, for if training for a 2:15 Oly, ride at least 4:30. The thought behind this is that if you can regularly ride 4+ hours, racing for 2+ hours should feel easier.
If you are following the 4x 2hr plan, this is what I’d recommend. One ride should include a Zone 3 tempo set, Start the temp at 20 or 30 min, and increase time in Zone 3 by 10 min or so each week. This will transition nicely to muscular endurance intervals when your build periods begin. Like already mentioned, one other ride should have some moderate big gear intervals. If you are riding outdoors, and terrain permits, I’d recommend doing some shorter hill climbs along your ride. If you are going to be riding on a trainer, do a few min in a big gear, letting HR get into Zones 4 and 5a. Later in the season, these workouts will transition into more intense intervals.
With all that said, if you can put in that kind of a volume on a trainer, you are a much better person than I.
2 hr minimum ride? Last year was my 1st year doing tris, so obviously I have nothing other than my own, very limited experience, and my point of view will probably be viewed as worthless by most on here. That said… After the initial “how the heck do I pedal and switch gears” phase, my starting speed was about 18mph on a road bike before I got my tri bike. I did 3-3.5 hours total (2 rides @ 1hr, 1 ride @~1.5 hr) per week and had a 22mph bike OLY bike split at end of year. I know that’s still fairly MOP by ST standards, but my point is I am not convinced 2 hr min rides and 8 hrs per week are necessary to get FOP for olys. I am 99% sure I am going to get to 23mph for an OLY this year continuing my 3-4 hour bike training load per week, especially if I manage to actually be consistent and also get more than one 2 hr long ride in. I am sure there is a lower ceiling for an age grouper at 3 or 4 hrs per week, but I still have plenty of room to add training load before hitting 8 hrs week, and I think going from 3.5 hrs to 5 hrs, for example, would pay 95% of the dividends (for me personally) that 8 hrs per week could ever pay for oly racing. Who knows though - maybe I just a naive newbie. Just my $.02.
Yeah and you accuse me of spreading mis information
for some, they just roll out of bed drunk and hop on a steel bike and can do it.
Name one person who is FOP in any cycling disipline without a big background in cycling.
**I mean the hour record was once broken on a regimine of ~three 1 hour all out sessions a week + 7 hours of riding around. **
If you mean Obree, no it wasn’t, he had years, maybe decades of longer intensive riding. What you describe was close to his final prep period, but thats akin to describing what Wellington did the final week before Kona as her training regimine
define FOP
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Front Of The Pack ;-).
Say Cat 1 or above in cycling, top 20 OA in an IM race.
ok then i don’t qualify…but i was 1 out of about 150 off the bike in M30-34 at the Austin triathlon this year, and I do very little bike training.