Barry P. Running Plan

Triathlon Forum
1

I have a question regarding the Barry P. running plan. What pace do I run my short, medium and long runs. I used the McMillan running calculator as recommended and my three base mile paces are as follows:
Recovery jogs 10:09-9:27
Long Runs 9:41-8:25
Easy Runs 9:20-8:19

My running schedule is as follows, I have been using the recovery run pace for the short runs and the long run pace for the medium and long runs. Is this correct or should I also be using the easy run pace and if so for which runs.
Monday 3
Tuesday 6
Wednesday 3
Thursday 6
Friday 3
Saturday 9
Thanks…

2

Not sure what is “correct,” but I use easy run pace for my short and medium runs and long run pace for long runs.

3

The easy run pace is intended for the medium runs. Here the links to his plan:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=2545826;
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=2548469;
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=2554998;

That’s parts 1, 2, and 3 in order. He’s very explicit in these posts. Good luck!

4

I just finished 12 weeks of volume using the easy run pace for the medium runs and made great gains. It felt like the highest effort run, but still not difficult. I was well recovered within 24h and ready for the next run.

Now in week 13 I’m trading an easy run pace for a tempo run for the medium.

The whole time I switched up days and went medium, short, medium, short, long, short. Felt nice to do an easy day after the long run but I don’t think it was suggested by barryp

5

I have read the plan, however it is not clear to me which ditstance I should should be running each speed using the pace calculator.
.

6

He says pretty explicitly run them at a pace where you could comfortably hold a conversation, independent of run length.

7

I have read the plan, however it is not clear to me which ditstance I should should be running each speed using the pace calculator

I believe your “1” (3 miles for you) blocks should be run @ recovery pace, your “2” runs should be an “easy” pace and your “3” runs should be at “long run” pace.

*edit to fix quoting feature

8

“conversational pace” is a good approach.

i’ve read Barry’s posts and the threads they beget. i feel that the underlying philosophy is “run as often as you can in order to run more.” that means that when you’re doing one run, you’re also preparing for your next run. therefore all runs should be done at a pace that makes the recovery time appropriate.

if you have a great run yesterday … y’know, really fun, really fast … but it diminished today’s run … then you went to fast. and the only way to know where the edge is … is to go over it every once in a while. so if you feel fresh for all of your runs then you need to push harder. probably starting with your 1’s.

9

BarryP’s plan is a great way to get you used to running daily with minimal risk of injury. I used it back in late 2010 and early 2011. I’ve since modified the distances, but not the philosophy.

I will give you my current example. My weekly running usually looks something like this:

T: 6.5
W: 9.5
T: 6.5
F: 9.5
S: 6.5
S: 13+

One of my weekly 9.5 mile runs include some form of workout at tempo pace @6:30/mi or below (i.e. 2 x 20 minutes, progression run or 40 minutes hard).

My other 9.5 mile run is at what I call general conditioning pace (6:50’s to 7:10’s).

My 6.5 mile runs are my short & easy runs. I run them between 7:30/mi and 8:00/mi based on weather and such. There are many days when my short & easy runs are above 8:00/mi.

My 13+ mile runs are slightly faster than my short and easy pace of 7:30/mi - 8:00/mi. However, I often include stretches of varying length of my long run below that pace (like a fast finish or marathon pace miles). So, the total average of my long run will be closer to 7:15 - 7:25/mi.

Hope this helps

10

I think it depends on the phase you’re in. As I understand it, phase 1 would be mostly 3X recovery, 2X easy and 1X long as you build a base. As you introduce harder efforts in phase 2, one of the 2X runs would be a threshold, tempo or steady state effort. Then if you get to phase 3 the other 2X run would be an alternative threshold, tempo or steady state effort. I may not be expressing this exactly as he has written, bit I think it’s close and it’s what I have been able to apply.

11

I have read the plan, however it is not clear to me which distance I should should be running each speed using the pace calculator.

I am not sure what it is but many want to over-think this - must be something in the “type-A” triathletes, where, “Just run” is not enough enough or detail not sufficient, but that is essentially what you are trying to do.

This works best with people who don’t come from a running back-ground, new triathletes, or those who are really serious about elevating run fitness. Pick a block of time - minimum one month. Strive to run as many days in that month as you can. If you must put some numbers to it - one day off a week is OK.

The pace and length of each run should be such that you can repeat it the next day, and the next day and the next . . . you get the picture. It’s not sexy. It’s not glamorous. You’ll not “win” any Strava sections doing this. The minute data, is not really that important. Set a minimum length in minutes of your shortest runs( typically 15 - 20 minutes). Without fail, make sure that you get out and get in even those short runs. It’s counter intuitive, but these actually are the “more important” runs. Perhaps up to an hour or so for the longer runs.

Depending on your back-ground, I almost gaurantee if you keep this up for a month or two, then you schedule a 5k or 10K running race, you’ll go out and set a PB straight up!

My thoughts on all this with some more detail are here - http://stevefleck.blogspot.ca/...nning-frequency.html

For the numbers obsessed, BarryP does put a bit more structure to it than I do ( look for threads/posts on the forum), but the spirit and rational is the same.

12

I have a question regarding the Barry P. running plan. What pace do I run my short, medium and long runs. I used the McMillan running calculator as recommended and my three base mile paces are as follows:
Recovery jogs 10:09-9:27
Long Runs 9:41-8:25
Easy Runs 9:20-8:19

The three are interchangeable as far as I’m concerned. Your range is from 8:19 to 10:09. As long as you are in between those numbers, run what feels good to you.

13

i’ve read Barry’s posts and the threads they beget. i feel that the underlying philosophy is “run as often as you can in order to run more.” that means that when you’re doing one run, you’re also preparing for your next run. therefore all runs should be done at a pace that makes the recovery time appropriate.

if you have a great run yesterday … y’know, really fun, really fast … but it diminished today’s run … then you went to fast. and the only way to know where the edge is … is to go over it every once in a while. so if you feel fresh for all of your runs then you need to push harder. probably starting with your 1’s.

Very great way to put it!

14

Fleck,

 The biggest problem I've seen with triathletes is that they tend to be disorganized and try to get too much out of a workout.  A friend of mine who was an excellent triathlete (10:40 IM) was a great example of this.  Even after slowing down his paces, I took a look at his log, and the weeks looked something like this:

15, 18, 20, 10, 20, 12, 25, 12, 0, 5, 25, 12, 28, 5

I told him that they really need to look more like this:

15, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25, 28, 31, 33, etc.

Without the structure, they tend to get in the habit of not running when they don’t feel like it, and then making up for it later by pushing harder, only to end up taking a few days off because they are sore, etc, etc,

After hanging out with him for year, he finally was able to take off something like 45 minutes off of his IM run time. Before his last IM run, he got in something like 12 weeks of 35+ miles a week, which was way better than his previous mostly in the mid 20s, but an average more like 18 or 19/wk.

15

they tend to get in the habit of not running when they don’t feel like it

Barry,

That’s why I said, perhaps the more important runs are the ones where you get out on the days you don’t feel like running and you only put in 20 odd minutes!

I would say these sorts of runs are even more important for triathletes . . . you never start the run in a race on fresh legs!!

16

i’ve read Barry’s posts and the threads they beget. i feel that the underlying philosophy is “run as often as you can in order to run more.” that means that when you’re doing one run, you’re also preparing for your next run. therefore all runs should be done at a pace that makes the recovery time appropriate.

if you have a great run yesterday … y’know, really fun, really fast … but it diminished today’s run … then you went to fast. and the only way to know where the edge is … is to go over it every once in a while. so if you feel fresh for all of your runs then you need to push harder. probably starting with your 1’s.

Very great way to put it!

domo arigato, sensei
two years of paying attention and i think it may have clicked. :wink:

17

Thanks, that is what I was looking for.

18

The problem is a lot of triathletes and even runners think that a 20 minute run doesn’t give them enough. They lose the forest for the trees and don’t realize that it’s not just about that single 20 minute run but ALL those 20 minute runs that over the course of a year start to add up to real mileage. And, of course, that ignores the fact that the person who does those “extra” 20 minute runs eventually has those runs as 45 and 60 minute runs.

I speak from experience. Always stuck 25mpw, high 30s was a big week, afraid of injury. Now I can drop a 50 mpw week on top of swim and bike workouts without any problem.

19

EDIT… nevermind, I jsut need to spend a ouple hours reading the whole plan in it’s full entirety and I’ll know that answer.

20

Motoguy, I had the concerns when I implemented BarryP’s formula into my plan. I found I recovered quicker after a base build of running 6 days a week. The only time I found myself with dead cycling legs is when I swap my long ride and long run.Typically long ride on Saturday and run on Sunday, swapping those and my ride generally suffers and becomes a recovery ride.

I did find when sticking to my normal plan of long ride Saturday with a brick run, that I was recovered well for Sunday’s long run.

No doubt you’ll have to experiment with what works best for you, but I think you’ll find over a short period that you feel fresh for each run.