I know there are a lot of experienced power addicts on here so appologies for sounding like an idiot, but when looking at the stats for a TT I look mainly at the Normalised power output, is this right?
My theory is, the wind / course / atmosphere may be different affecting your time, but if you’ve put out more power then you have still rode better, is that right?
I don’t pay too much attention to the average power, my thinking is freewheeling round islands etc will affect the output.
I ride to my feeling in my legs and my heart rate rather than power.
Also is functional threshold the point where you switch from aerobic to anorobic? After a fitness test that point was 168bpm.
Here are two rides that had very similar normalized power for me but drasticaly different average power. I don’t have the PT file on hand right now but as I remember the first one was 205-210 NP and 205 AP, the second one was 205 NP and 190 AP.
First one being very flat and the second one very hilly. Funny thing is that I ran much better after the hilly one despite being on the bike for another 18 minutes
I may have this all wrong (in part) but for TT’s your avg watts and NP should basically be the same. I say this bc on a TT (or Tri) you should be pacing yourself based on the course and wind so there is not a lot of fluctuation over the TT in your power output. Yes I realize that there can be different power outputs during a TT based on the course and the wind but it is not like a crit or even a road race where there are sprints and surges or even slow pedaling/no pedaling spots where your power output will differ greatly during a race. This is where your avg power and your NP can differ greatly. Your avr power will be lower than your NP bc the NP takes into account all of the surges and sprints and/or hills climbs where you are putting out a lot higher power. NP takes this into account when it is calculated because you as a rider are working so much harder physically to put out that extra power (than just an avg power reading). So on a TT I look at avg. So just bc your NP is higher it does not mean that you rode better/faster on a TT.
Yes freewheeling around corners or round islands or even downhills affects avg power output but really, how many of these do you have on a TT course? Most are out and back courses or loops.
FTP is the avg max power that you can put out for a 1hr ride. Not sure that you can say it is the point where you switch from aerobic to anaerobic.
The whole statement of you race by your feeling and heart rate rather than power is a whole other argument. Many people who have raced for a long time and really know their body, agree with this and say they just use a power meter for training purposes, I am in the other camp and go primarily by avg power during the race. I have just found for me that my heart rate is not near as responsive as my power readings (obviously) and that I can adjust my efforts using power a lot more quickly (it is amazing how often you find your heart rate in the correct zone but your power has dropped or knowing how much extra power you can put out for hills or into the wind over a race course that at least for me, I can not tell by heart rate). For every TT race I have a plan of what avg power to shoot for and depending on the course, that can be broken down into different power for different segments of the race course. Again, other people will totally disagree with this so you have to decide what is best for you.
I know there are a lot of experienced power addicts on here so appologies for sounding like an idiot, but when looking at the stats for a TT I look mainly at the Normalised power output, is this right?
Yes, though for MOST time trials it doesn’t matter. If the TT is very hilly, or twisty, and long, then normalized power will be a better measure of how hard you are actually working than average power. BUT, it takes about 40 minutes before normalized power is really meaningful anyway. So, might as well look at average power for 40kTT and less.
My theory is, the wind / course / atmosphere may be different affecting your time, but if you’ve put out more power then you have still rode better, is that right?
Yes
I don’t pay too much attention to the average power, my thinking is freewheeling round islands etc will affect the output.
That affects normalized power as well
I ride to my feeling in my legs and my heart rate rather than power.
Wouldn’t worry about heart rate really.
Also is functional threshold the point where you switch from aerobic to anorobic? After a fitness test that point was 168bpm.
There is no point where that happens and it is not a heart rate thing. You are always doing both aerobic and anerobic output. Functional threshold power is the power that you can do for 1 hour. It is a point where the workout is mostly aerobic, where the anaerobic reserves are just barely being drained faster than they are being filled. Slightly more power will lead to quick fatigue, slightly less power you can do for a really long time.
in practice for 99% of TTs the average and normalized power are almost identical. So it doesn’t really matter for pacing purposes.
This was my first ever 25m TT last year, only just started TT’ing so be kind.
Avg Power: 266 W
Max Power: 974 W
Max Avg Power (20 min): 269 W
Normalized Power (NP): 272 W
Intensity Factor (IF): 0.68
Training Stress Score(TSS): 47.2
Distance: 25.08 mi
Time: 1:02:04
AvgPace: 2:29 min/mi
Avg Speed: 24.2 mph
Elevation Gain: 591
Avg Cadence: 96
Max Speed: 35.7 mph
Avg HR: 163 bpm
Max HR: 176 bpm
If I’m honest I’ve no idea what much of it means but you’re are right, my average power is quite similar to my NP.
…when looking at the stats for a TT I look mainly at the Normalised power output…
Average power will determine how fast your bike goes, NP will estimate the effective stress you placed on your body to make your bike go that fast. If you want to go faster then you’ll need to raise AP, but if you do that in a bursty way and raise NP even higher then you may not be able to handle the additional intensity and you may blow up on course. Bottom line, raise AP and keep NP not to far above AP if you want to go as fast as you can over a timed course.
…Also is functional threshold the point where you switch from aerobic to anorobic? …
Not quite, we don’t actually ‘switch’ from aerobic to anaerobic which is why the term ‘anaerobic threshold’ has fallen out of favor though you’ll still see it used by some coaches. Functional Threshold is what you can handle for your best maximal and well paced effort for roughly an hour on a very good day with sufficient freshness and motivation. IOW, it’s ‘functional’ because it’s what you can do and intentionally distances itself from underlying markers like blood lactate or HR break points or O2 uptake rates.
Sure lot’s of folks try to map it back to those markers which sort of defeats the elegance of ‘functional’ but if you must then most folk’s FTP is a bit higher than lab tested LT via OBLA, MLSS or other common methods. IOW, on a good day with a lot of motivation and good pacing you can likely push to hold a bit higher power than the power you could sustain prior to a rapid increase in blood lactate accumulation tested via common lab tests of varying protocol.
Since you’re quoting HR, an easy way to find the HR that’s roughly equivalent to your HR at FTP is to go out and do a very hard interval of around 30 minutes on steady terrain. Try to pace it to your limit but steadily so you don’t blow up and have to back off the pace. IOW, pace it like you might a flat or steady grade time trial. Take your average HR for the final 20 minutes of that 30 minute effort as a good estimate of HR at FTP. The exact 20 or 30 minute times aren’t essential but make it pretty long and close to those times and take the HR average without the first few minutes as HR lag is still catching up with the intense effort.
maybe you ought to adjust your FTP value, if you did a 1hr TT , TSS should be 100, not 47
another thought on NP vs AP, while you can pretend than you could do the NP as AP on a good day, if they are much different, it may be difficult to achive. say for instance that AP was 278 and NP 300 for a 1 hour ride. the KJ of the AP=1000, the KJ of the NP, if you were to try and avg that for an hour instead, would be 1080 or 8% higher. Whether you could actually do that is a whole 'nother animal.
So AP and NP are very close. I would guess that this course had some hills (based on maxed speed and avg speed and avg power) and you put some effort into them. Uhm, one thing though, basically a 1 hr effort and if you rode it hard (did u throw up crossing the line?) your FTP is around 268.
Your TSS should then have been around 100 if you have your FTP set correctly in your Gramin (or whatever computer you use). Your IF should be higher also.
What is your age and weight? I’m guessing middle aged (30-40’s) and slightly heavy.
Your IF should be near 1, so either your FTP is set very wrong, or you went way way too easy.
Average and Normalized power are close, as expected. Maybe a bit too far apart unless it was a hilly TT. Might benefit from more even pacing otherwise.
This was my first ever 25m TT last year, only just started TT’ing so be kind.
Avg Power: 266 W
Max Power: 974 W
Max Avg Power (20 min): 269 W
Normalized Power (NP): 272 W
Intensity Factor (IF): 0.68
Training Stress Score(TSS): 47.2
Distance: 25.08 mi
Time: 1:02:04
AvgPace: 2:29 min/mi
Avg Speed: 24.2 mph
Elevation Gain: 591
Avg Cadence: 96
Max Speed: 35.7 mph
Avg HR: 163 bpm
Max HR: 176 bpm
If I’m honest I’ve no idea what much of it means but you’re are right, my average power is quite similar to my NP.
So AP and NP are very close. I would guess that this course had some hills (based on maxed speed and avg speed and avg power) and you put some effort into them. Uhm, one thing though, basically a 1 hr effort and if you rode it hard (did u throw up crossing the line?) your FTP is around 268.
Your TSS should then have been around 100 if you have your FTP set correctly in your Gramin (or whatever computer you use). Your IF should be higher also.
What is your age and weight? I’m guessing middle aged (30-40’s) and slightly heavy.
Yes I killed myself, if I remember I had to do an emergency stop from 35mp for pedestrian lights and it was borderline gale force winds at times, awful TT, and yes it’s a bit lumpy at times Dunston K7 / 25.