You can swap days as you want for workouts. So you could swap the z2 run and z2 ride days.
Or simply just do the z2 run and the program recognizes it at an unplanned event and continues on.
I’ve done several unplanned runs and it handles it fine.
I think I read it on the site that you are working on having it work with Stryd. Any timeframe on that? Thanks!
We sure are but its not as easy to implement as you may think and we’ll need to change the code in several places.
It also brings up a lot of questions. Here’s a few we’re debating and keen to hear thoughts from the ST team using running power as you’ll have good insight into using both power and pace I am sure…
When a user uploads both pace and power, what do we prefer to analyze for load?What do we do for a user when most of the time there is power data, but sometimes there isn’t? What do we do if the power and pace zones don’t conform with one another?
Etc.
I think I read it on the site that you are working on having it work with Stryd. Any timeframe on that? Thanks!
We sure are but its not as easy to implement as you may think and we’ll need to change the code in several places.
It also brings up a lot of questions. Here’s a few we’re debating and keen to hear thoughts from the ST team using running power as you’ll have good insight into using both power and pace I am sure…
When a user uploads both pace and power, what do we prefer to analyze for load?What do we do for a user when most of the time there is power data, but sometimes there isn’t? What do we do if the power and pace zones don’t conform with one another?
Etc.
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I think the point of Stryd is to mimic power on the bike. So, to point 1, if you have Stryd, you have it to run by power, and that is what should be analyzed. Like power on the bike, it removes many of the variables that impact pace.
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Order of operations right? If the system detects Stryd, it uses that as the primary tool for assessment, if it doesn’t, it defaults to the standard analysis you’re doing today.
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I’m trying to think of a scenario where they wouldn’t be correlated? Based off my runs, Stryd has presumably generated a full power curve for me because they are showing estimated 1 mile, 5k, 10k, half, full marathon power estimations. I would imagine that’s relatively correlated to power zones for biking right? I know it captured power above my 1 mile estimate on my 30/30 run yesterday so all of that would be available to drive analysis.
That was fantastic thanks. Super helpful and giving us confidence to move ahead…
Paul, if the data is coming from the Garmin platform, all you need to do is work with the power in the fit file. It should not matter if it comes from stryd, the garmin watch (new versions calculate running power) or Garmin hr belt that also does power. So really no complexity at all if it comes from a Garmin sync (which I assume is the bulk of the users)
You would want to pull direct from Stryd because not everybody will have a garmin watch.
Oh I totally understand it’s not easy so don’t think I was criticizing or anything! I did the trial but realized without Stryd integration it wouldn’t be as useful for me but love the idea of it.
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As for your questions power 100%. I look at pace in workouts but mostly concerned with power as I know many factors go into pace in a run. Similar to bike power it’s easier for me to track that and look at that data than pace since things happen and terrain changes.
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Couldn’t tell you about that because every run I do is with power but maybe there’s some type of code that can guesstimate?
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Same as 1. Power takes precedence over pace. And for me that’s especially true because I alter my weight based on weather so that my power is where my effort should be for said workout zone. If that makes sense. I’ve learned a lot from Steve palladino and his plans and insights.
If you have any other questions I’d be more than happy to help. Been using Stryd since 2019 and doubt I’ll move away from running power anytime soon.
Oh I totally understand it’s not easy so don’t think I was criticizing or anything! I did the trial but realized without Stryd integration it wouldn’t be as useful for me but love the idea of it.
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As for your questions power 100%. I look at pace in workouts but mostly concerned with power as I know many factors go into pace in a run. Similar to bike power it’s easier for me to track that and look at that data than pace since things happen and terrain changes.
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Couldn’t tell you about that because every run I do is with power but maybe there’s some type of code that can guesstimate?
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Same as 1. Power takes precedence over pace. And for me that’s especially true because I alter my weight based on weather so that my power is where my effort should be for said workout zone. If that makes sense. I’ve learned a lot from Steve palladino and his plans and insights.
If you have any other questions I’d be more than happy to help. Been using Stryd since 2019 and doubt I’ll move away from running power anytime soon.
Not at all. I was genuinely asking for help as the running power meters were only emerging as I did my last long distance race in 2015 and can no longer run effectively. I’m aware they’ve come a long way which is great to see. We’re already moving in this direction now from the excellent feedback of the last few. Thanks all!!!
Happy to help! And like I said if you want more insight or to ask more questions I’m happy to help out.
What if I don’t have any swim toys, except a buoy? Can I do the workout without them?
Is there a way to import the swim workout into FORM goggles/app?
Not a problem on the swim toys. A buoy will work fine and when you’re prescribed paddles you can just swim.
Unfortunately not yet. There’s a number on our Athletica Forum asking for the same and they are trying to get FORM’s attention. We are keen to integrate when they are.
I signed up for the 2 week trial this week and have been going through the test week. I probably have more “cons” than “pros” but may are just tweaks/potential bugs with the program and not outright negatives on the program.
I’m only on the test week, so some comments may change as I get out of test week and into the “real week.”
I’m signed up for the Middle Distance Duathlon program (would convert to the Triathlon program once I get access to a pool).
Pros:
- My goals is a program that is solid in all disciplines (everybody keeps saying TrainerRoad does not have a decent run program) and this seems to offer good options and planning for both.
- The connection with Garmin Connect is seamless which fits my ecosystem well.
- The program updates are good, though probably overkill. I’m not sure it needs to show an “originally” vs “Now” for sessions several weeks from now, especially when the changes to the actual workout really isn’t material (i.e if the load value changes by 1 unit 3 weeks from now it lets you know).
- The workout program does seem quite polarized in general. As I’ll note below, it probably could diversify the workouts more (no 400 repeats/no 1k repeats offered, etc), but the overall program seems solid with good volumes.
Improvement Opportunities:
- Program is a little bit repetitive on workout options looking at the weeks ahead.
- Some of the stats/targets aren’t well explained which leaves you guessing on the purpose of the session. For example, my first workout next week calls for 10 minutes at “L3B,” yet that term doesn’t seem to be defined anywhere that I can find in the “Help and Education” section. You can kind of figure it out based off some of the metric targets, but nothing spells it out.
- Piggybacking off point 2, some of the target metrics just aren’t correct. For example, I did the MAF Bike test yesterday. The descriptor for the test portion says HR should be (180-Age). I’m 40, so my MAF target should be 140. However, the workout itself suggest a HR range of 137-167. I also noticed on the MAF Run test that again with a target of 140, I was “above target” if I went above a 137 HR.
- When i signed up, I input bike data, but not run data. So the system really misjudges your run speed initially until you do your 5k test (presumably). Right now it thinks my MAF Run test time is my “best 5k” time and is basing future runs on that. When I finish the 5k on Sat, I assume the system will become far more accurate to my real paces.
- The program really needs more “non-race” options instead of just “train to train.” I’m thinking true “base building sessions” or “FTP Builders,” etc. This could offer more targeted improvements than “train to train” or “train to race.”
So overall, I like it. Without tons of experience in multi-sport programming, it seems to do a good job of balancing things out for me. It’s hard with just a 2 week trial (1 of which is testing) to gauge the program more fully.
I’ll probably give at least TR a try next since they offer a free month, to see if they’ve improved their run program any. I’ll be adding swimming in a couple weeks and so that needs to be considered as well.
Thanks for the thorough and generally positive review. I’ll address the Improvement Opportunities section:
- At first glance you are correct. However, please note that nearly all our sessions are equipped with the Workout Wizard feature (Green Button). This gives you nearly unlimited session adjustment to your context with appropriate sessions catered for you (duration differences, intensity differences, variety and injury option).
- Agree it might not be intuitive at first glance and this is our challenge. Our ‘AI-Coach’ session analysis feature that gives session feedback (super popular now) aims to educate the user bit by bit as they go about their training process on Athletica. We also have a Help and Education section (left side of app page) but most people go to our growing Athletica Forum to ask others or search for their issue.
- Agree that we haven’t got our MAF zones dialled yet (as you illustrate) and we’re currently having lots of discussion here behind the scenes. If anyone else is reading I’d be curious to know if there is a market for AI-guided MAF plans as we have these for the most part built and are just working through the logic.
- Yes - you bring up another good point and we are working on swapping the order of the 5k test with the MAF test so we can anchor better your zones (high intensity one first to get second threshold).
- Okay. This is likely where we’ll put the MAF plans as these are base building plans so at least one of your suggestions is in the pipeline.
SlowTwitch represents our strongest group of followers (thank you!) so I’d like to share our latest beta release here with everyone — Athletica’s Workout Reserve on Garmin IQ. The WR Garmin App gives you real time insight into your workout reserve - on your wrist or in your cockpit. The workout reserve offers practical insights, particularly for cyclists and runners, by showing how much ‘effort reserve’ you have left in real-time. This is crucial for making strategic decisions in training and races, akin to knowing how many ‘matches’ you have left to ‘burn’. While the Workout Reserve is a powerful tool, it’s essential to understand its capabilities and limitations. It’s a benchmark of your current performance level against historical peaks (last 6 weeks), not an indicator of your energy levels. This distinction is crucial for effectively utilizing this feature. If you’re interested in learning more, please check out our blog on the topic and our extensive beta Forum thread where beta users discuss their use of it. Thank you for your support.
Small but important release: ‘Goals’ for Races. You can now add ‘Goals’ to your races in your settings. These free-text fields allow you to note any objective or target you’re aiming for along with race details. Just the beginning but we envision a future where we can create a feedback loop linking user training behaviour to goals and outcomes.
I finally started using my Athletica Subscription and so far I’m liking it. I am using TrainerDay to do my workouts and I don’t mind the “manual” process of loading the workouts from Athletica to TrainerDay. I do however want to make an observation, and I think it’s better made if I use a Recovery Ride as an explame.
I have a 1 hour recovery ride that I like to do on Fridays, and I have added that to my plan generated by Athletica AI. This ride is in Zone 2, and my Zone 2 goes from like 150W up to 224W. When I export that workout to bring it to TrainerDay I end up with a 198W constant ride, from minute 0 to minute 60. No way I can start pushing 200W from a cold start, so I tweak it, give myself a bit of a warmup and then also give myself a cool down. And this happens with all the workouts, the AI gives me a range, but its expectation is pretty high up in that range, so I’m under doing all the bike workouts. I end up with less load than what the AI expected.
For example yesterday I had a 31 minute VO2 HIIT type workout, and the AI calculated a training load of 37, I did all the workout within that range that it was expecting, but I ended up with a 26 load. I’ve done this type of workouts a bazillion times, and I know I’m in the right zone, but the AI is expecting everything pretty high up in the range it’s prescribing.
Thanks for the support, Paul.
Hi there.
Thanks for reporting this and its interesting to hear how you’re using Athletica. I’d like to investigate this further if you wouldn’t my so we can improve our UX for you and others in the future. If you wouldn’t mind posting on our Forum we can take things further from there.
Thanks again,
Paul
Hey Paul,
Definitely interested in trying athletica couple big questions though. Someone else mentioned there’s no app and I can’t find one. Is there one in the works?
Second, I work 48 hour shifts at the firehouse where my only training option is treadmill. Is there a way I can tell the software only run workouts those two days every week, and can I tell it to keep those workouts on the shorter side? Thanks
Just re-found this thread and I’m interested.
Some things I have questions about:
- Can you train with heart rate only? This may sound crazy to some, but I train almost entirely indoors, mainly cycling, and all of that on a Peloton that I’m currently not paying a subscription for…hence, I don’t have “recordable†power data but I do have a Garmin Fenix 3 so I can train and save HR data. If I run, I only use HR to keep my pace in check.
- I don’t currently have any plans to race but as a former elite-level athlete (in non-endurance sports) I need structure and goals. Currently I’m trying to get back in shape with parallel goal of increasing aerobic capacity, building VO2max etc. These are just loose goals, nothing specific
- I’m really interested in the way a lot of elite triathletes train, and yes that includes the Norwegians whether that’s really a thing or a method or whatever. My training tends to be either easy z1/2 with no intervals or high intensity VO2-type intervals >105% - I am going off an arbitrary FTP of 200w but it seems to correlate pretty well with what I think my HR zones might be.
- I really just follow a 3-zone structure, I really don’t have much capacity for 5 or 7 in designing or executing workouts. Looks something like this:
Z1 56-75% 110-150w —> low aerobic
Z2 76-90% 152-180w —> threshold
High Z2 91-105% 182-210w —> long HIT
Z3 +106% 212-240w —> short HIT (vo2max)
I really don’t do much in Z2, in the 76-90% range. I’ve started to do more in my high Z2 but it’s usually at the low end, and not very long (4-8min). My Z3 work tends to be 30/30, 3 x (13x 30/15) and things like that.
(Obviously these correspond to a 5- or 7-zone model and yes I can do the math if needed, I just don’t find much practical use in it as a recreational athlete.)
—> so, how would I start using athletica?
Hey Paul,
Definitely interested in trying athletica couple big questions though. Someone else mentioned there’s no app and I can’t find one. Is there one in the works?
Second, I work 48 hour shifts at the firehouse where my only training option is treadmill. Is there a way I can tell the software only run workouts those two days every week, and can I tell it to keep those workouts on the shorter side? Thanks
Hello and thanks for your interest.
Indeed there is no stand alone mobile app currently, but we do have one in the works. How long to produce is anyone’s guess as we’re just onboarding our new front end design specialist who will revamp our front facing web app and also create iOS and Android mobile apps. Few months likely.
To your second point, there should be no problem with your treadmill runs at the firehouse. If you drop in and do a free trial on Athletica, DM me on the Athletica Forum (@prof) and I can set you up as a beta tester. As a beta tester you can trial a feature we have in the works called user-time-constraints (we haven’t found a good name yet) but basically with it you can specify your day, training type and time available and Athletica tries to prescribe accordingly for you. So you could tell it which days you want your treadmill runs on and for how long. Then see what you get.
Best,
Paul
Hi there.
Thanks for reporting this and its interesting to hear how you’re using Athletica. I’d like to investigate this further if you wouldn’t my so we can improve our UX for you and others in the future. If you wouldn’t mind posting on our Forum we can take things further from there.
Thanks again,
Paul
Thanks, Paul.
I posted over there.
Just re-found this thread and I’m interested.
Some things I have questions about:
- Can you train with heart rate only? This may sound crazy to some, but I train almost entirely indoors, mainly cycling, and all of that on a Peloton that I’m currently not paying a subscription for…hence, I don’t have “recordable†power data but I do have a Garmin Fenix 3 so I can train and save HR data. If I run, I only use HR to keep my pace in check.
- I don’t currently have any plans to race but as a former elite-level athlete (in non-endurance sports) I need structure and goals. Currently I’m trying to get back in shape with parallel goal of increasing aerobic capacity, building VO2max etc. These are just loose goals, nothing specific
- I’m really interested in the way a lot of elite triathletes train, and yes that includes the Norwegians whether that’s really a thing or a method or whatever. My training tends to be either easy z1/2 with no intervals or high intensity VO2-type intervals >105% - I am going off an arbitrary FTP of 200w but it seems to correlate pretty well with what I think my HR zones might be.
- I really just follow a 3-zone structure, I really don’t have much capacity for 5 or 7 in designing or executing workouts. Looks something like this:
Z1 56-75% 110-150w —> low aerobic
Z2 76-90% 152-180w —> threshold
High Z2 91-105% 182-210w —> long HIT
Z3 +106% 212-240w —> short HIT (vo2max)
I really don’t do much in Z2, in the 76-90% range. I’ve started to do more in my high Z2 but it’s usually at the low end, and not very long (4-8min). My Z3 work tends to be 30/30, 3 x (13x 30/15) and things like that.
(Obviously these correspond to a 5- or 7-zone model and yes I can do the math if needed, I just don’t find much practical use in it as a recreational athlete.)
—> so, how would I start using athletica?
Thanks for your questions Jeremy. Answers as:
- yes - while not as effective as using power on the bike, Athletica defaults to heart rate for load calculations when power isn’t available. Works fine and others on the platform do the same.
- Athletica is all about structure and our plans align with how Olympic programs train athletes. This is the backbone logic of Athletica. The ‘train-to-maintain’ model will allow you to achieve your goals.
- You might enjoy my chat with Olav and learn that Athletica plans are more or less similar and aligned with the Norwegian philosophy.
- Your 3-zone structure appears to align with the Athletica 5-zone heart rate and 7-zone power/pace structure.
To start using Athletica, simply sign-up for a free Athletica account. You can reach me directly on the Athletica Forum (@prof) where we have a community that assists one another to achieve personal goals.