Looking at courses like IMSG and IMLP with long steep downhills, at what point is it not worth pedaling? If i’m spinning a 50x12 over 100rpm to get traction over about 33-35mph but i can tuck down low and put my knees against the top tube and coast - is that better. Is there a benefit to keeping the legs moving (blood flow)? Is there a benefit to the rest period? What if you are contracting the legs isometricly to maintain the position and reduce road vibration (chip seal roads)? Any thoughts? When do you stop pedaling?
for an IM race dont worry about VI. focus on intelligent riding.
its better to push the up hills then tuck in the down hills.
For me it’s ~30-33mph. Basically when it would take a lot of wattage to get 1-2mph faster. At that point it’s better to recover a bit.
33mph is perhaps smart in many circumstances - conventional wisdom (not necessarily in a triathlon/TT context) is 35-36mph, which is perhaps not entirely coincidentally ~100rpm in 53x12 on 700c - but it’s more than just the RPM, it’s the cost-benefit of overcoming the greatly increased wind resistance, which is what you’re getting at.
50x12 is, relatively speaking, a pretty small top gear…compact crank but with conventional cassette. Is there a reason you don’t have an 11 to match the compact crank? The reason you might want it is even if the 33mph matches about how hard you want to be working steady state, you might want to be able to ramp it up to 36 without spinning out in order to make a safe and/or legal pass (or…not spinning quite so fast at 33).
What Skip said.
Paraphrasing Rappstar here: “I know when I’m in the 53x12 and I can’t hit my power numbers anymore, it’s time to coast”.
Is there a reason you don’t have an 11 to match the compact crank?
Mostly because i’ve found i like to have the middle gear more than i want to crank the 11. i spend a lot of time in the 14-17 range. If i’m going down hill and want to push for a bit it’s not that hard to increase rpms by 10 or so to get the extra speed. At IM and HIM distance, on a hilly course, where i need a 34x25 that is used much less than the middle gears. For me.
it depends how fit you are and how badly you want to win.
if you have truly prepared to race an ironman you should probably never stop pedaling
if you were me, probably 30mph, stop pedaling =)
Even on descents I’m still pedaling, even if its only 50w being contributed. For me its more about blood flow and the belief that spinning your legs will help drain some lactic acid out.
The only time I stop pedaling is when I have a tight corner where I need to lean on one pedal to get around that corner.
putting your knees against the top tube can save ~0.5lb of drag
your heart is still pumping blood to your legs even when they arent moving for a minute.
Power reading is a good metric. I’m an uneasy descender so I tend to get off the power somewhere between 35 and up if not even before that.
I know you have more control over your bike when you’re pedaling but I’m just not a confident descender. I acknowledge I’ll lose more time going off the road or crashing than I would lose by backing off ona descent, so I tend to be pretty cautious.
it depends how fit you are and how badly you want to win.
if you have truly prepared to race an ironman you should probably never stop pedaling
if you were me, probably 30mph, stop pedaling =)
sorry, but i don’t think that is right. being ‘truly prepared to race an ironman’ means, i believe, knowing when to stop pedaling. it’s an endurance race so knowing when to most effectively use your energy is key to smart racing. i have no doubt on some courses elites and pros stop pedaling and tuck and i’m sure they are ‘truly prepared’. i can pedal for 112 miles, i’ve done it in IMFL and was first in my AG on the bike. i’ve been top 10 on the bike (in AG) at IMAZ twice. but I believe to do as well on a hilly course i need to know how to ration my energy effectively. Thanks
Even on descents I’m still pedaling, even if its only 50w being contributed. For me its more about blood flow and the belief that spinning your legs will help drain some lactic acid out.
The only time I stop pedaling is when I have a tight corner where I need to lean on one pedal to get around that corner.
Thanks, this is what i’ve been doing but i’m not sure it’s best. That’s why i was asking. Doing this i do feel better when it’s time to start pedaling again but is that just a ‘feeling’ or is it better, i don’t know.
Also, i think by tucking low and knees in i actually go faster then pedaling with slight pressure. Not sure, but i think it’s so when i got up over 35mph.
putting your knees against the top tube can save ~0.5lb of drag
your heart is still pumping blood to your legs even when they arent moving for a minute.
good points. especially the first. as to the second, i agree but i find in fast descents, especially on crappy roads or twisting roads, to get a good tuck i put most of my weight on my feet. so, i’m pretty much holding an isometric contraction in my legs to hold the position and keep minimal weight on the saddle and dampen road vibration. so, if i’m correct that isometric contractions cause reduced blood flow and require some energy maybe there is some benefit, on long course races, to keep pedaling.
it depends how fit you are and how badly you want to win.
if you have truly prepared to race an ironman you should probably never stop pedaling
if you were me, probably 30mph, stop pedaling =)
Guess you have never ridden any of the hilly Ironman courses.
/
I know you referenced tri, but if it were a TT, I pedal up to ~45mph these days. Just last week on a local TT course i hit 46.2 in the aerobars in a 53x12. I am not a spinner either. This is a hill where i used to tuck at 38, and would reach about 42max. It’s a short TT tho, so as I alluded earlier, this likely won’t apply to your specific Q. It really depends on the event.
it depends how fit you are and how badly you want to win.
if you have truly prepared to race an ironman you should probably never stop pedaling
if you were me, probably 30mph, stop pedaling =)
Guess you have never ridden any of the hilly Ironman courses.
/
IIRC, I don’t think Mr Mott has done an IM, period.
But, he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last nite - that’s gotta count for something, right?
Me - I’ll tuck and coast down the big Keene descent, thank you very much. jackmott can spin out like a gerbil on crystal meth, since he’s “racing” it.
To the OP - I’m in the ‘coast at 35mph+’ camp. IM, HIM, Oly, Sprint, don’t matter. You’re wasting watts in the wind trying to pedal when going that fast, when you could be using that extra oomph later on the run.
I see I am getting a lot of flak here.
How many of the pros coast on the fast downhill tailwins in kona? I recall lieto pedaling like a madman.
If you are fit enough, you want to keep putting power down.
Maybe no age groupers are that fit?
Maybe that’s why Lieto blew up on the run?
Just cuz a Pro does something, doesn’t make it right/smart.
ie: Chrissie wears a road helmet. Should we all do that? No.
Maybe you are getting a lot of flak cuz you are talking outta yer ass? Based on your vast personal IM racing experience?
Maybe you are getting a lot of flak cuz you are talking outta yer ass? Based on your vast personal IM racing experience?
Or maybe its just simple math. Putting 100 watts or so on a downhill isn’t fatiguing you and then you go faster.
faster is good.
I don’t recall Macca coasting back either