I am a runner who sometimes bikes. I’ll occasionally enter a short duathlon or a bike race for fun, but i’m horrible at them. My goal is to get a little better on the bike while limiting to 1 or 2 rides per week.
I have the classic problem of blown legs/quads at very low heart rates. A high cadence helps but not enough. To put some numbers to it, I currently can run under 16:00 for 5k, but can’t bike 20mi in an hour solo without my legs blowing up. I want to use my 1-2 rides per week to focus on that particular problem. The question is what kind of workout should I do during those rides to make the best use of my time?
Well it goes without saying that there’s a massive disparity between your running and your biking ability.
IMO I’d start training on your bike as you would coach someone who was new to running. To start with, keep the intensity in the easy-to-tempo range and focus on your form on the bike, good pedaling mechanics and a rock-solid position that you can hold for long periods without a problem. Once you’ve got a solid foundation, start to implement some higher intensity intervals. Unless you have lots of long quiet roads or big climbs near you, then this is somewhat difficult to achieve outdoors; a turbo trainer will make these a hell of a lot easier and more effective because you can just sit there and bury yourself without worrying about terrain, traffic, steering or just plain staying-upright. One of the turbo training programs (e.g. TrainerRoad, Zwift PerfPro, whatever) to alleviate the boredom and keep you honest with regards to intensity will help out hugely here.
No offence, but an hour at 20 mph isn’t lightening fast and you should be able to get there pretty quickly with a bit of focus. If you’re starting from a good base, I reckon one of TrainerRoad’s mid volume 8 week build plans would get you there, but ideally you’d be riding at least 3-4 times a week rather than 1-2.
I am a runner who sometimes bikes. I’ll occasionally enter a short duathlon or a bike race for fun, but i’m horrible at them. My goal is to get a little better on the bike while limiting to 1 or 2 rides per week.
I have the classic problem of blown legs/quads at very low heart rates. A high cadence helps but not enough. To put some numbers to it, I currently can run under 16:00 for 5k, but can’t bike 20mi in an hour solo without my legs blowing up. I want to use my 1-2 rides per week to focus on that particular problem. The question is what kind of workout should I do during those rides to make the best use of my time?
20 miles in an hour is probably similar to a 20 minute 5k.
If a biker asked you: How do I get better running with 1 or 2 rides a week - what would you tell them?
The answer is: Not much will help with that limited commitment.
The only way I made it to the 20mph world was by riding 6x weekly for ~3 months. Try out Trainerroad, take an FTP test, then look at your Watts/kg. You’re likely in the “untrained” category as I was. And that was after several years of riding 2-3x weekly. After 3 months on TR I went from riding 19 to 21.
Maintaining once you get there is much easier. So bite the short term bullet for long term gains.
I am a runner who sometimes bikes. I’ll occasionally enter a short duathlon or a bike race for fun, but i’m horrible at them. My goal is to get a little better on the bike while limiting to 1 or 2 rides per week.
I have the classic problem of blown legs/quads at very low heart rates. A high cadence helps but not enough. To put some numbers to it, I currently can run under 16:00 for 5k, but can’t bike 20mi in an hour solo without my legs blowing up. I want to use my 1-2 rides per week to focus on that particular problem. The question is what kind of workout should I do during those rides to make the best use of my time?
Once a week isn’t going to do a whole lot. But you could make some reasonable progress on 2x a week if both are intensity-oriented. I disagree that intensity is hard to do outside and you need a trainer, if running is your main focus why bother with acquiring more bike equipment? For 2x a week, I’d do one workout with shorter & harder intervals, 3-5 minutes each or so. I like to do these on the hills as it makes it much easier mentally. The other workout would be longer & steadier intervals in the tempo to threshold range of 10-20 minutes. (Keep in mind that in cycling parlance, tempo is one step below threshold, unlike running where it’s a threshold workout.) You’ve got good run fitness so while you do need to build up in a controlled manner, you shouldn’t need a long time to ramp up to real intensity provided you have decent bike position biomechanically.
Also keep in mind that keeping 20 mph on a solo ride is a rather meaningless metric, given a very hilly ride that could indicate quite a good level of fitness, whereas a good aero position & equipment on flat terrain will require a lot less fitness. Try to get a good low and narrow aero position (whether you’re using a tri or road bike) and you’ll short cut yourself to better speed regardless of your fitness improvement.
The only way I made it to the 20mph world was by riding 6x weekly for ~3 months. Try out Trainerroad, take an FTP test, then look at your Watts/kg. You’re likely in the “untrained” category as I was. And that was after several years of riding 2-3x weekly. After 3 months on TR I went from riding 19 to 21.
Maintaining once you get there is much easier. So bite the short term bullet for long term gains.
Someone that can do a 16 minute 5K already has good aerobic fitness and shouldn’t need to ride 6 times a week to get to 20 mph when cycling isn’t his main focus.
Now trying to get to 25 mph or so is another ballgame entirely and would require a much larger commitment to cycling than this guy is likely to want to make.
With 1-2 rides per week, unless they are 3-6 hour rides each, you won’t improve much.
You need at least 3 rides a week, structured, 1 ride is a longer ride 2-5 hours.
To get better at swimming, you need ot swim more, and focus on improving mechanics.
To get better at running, you need to run more, and focus on improving mechanics slowly.
To get better at biking, you need to bike a lot more, and focus on structure which includes quality session and recovery rides, or if time crunched, just quality sessions.
The specific cycling muscles you need take I’d say 1-2 years to develop. You don’t convert skinny runners legs to duathlete/triathlete legs overnight.
The only way I made it to the 20mph world was by riding 6x weekly for ~3 months. Try out Trainerroad, take an FTP test, then look at your Watts/kg. You’re likely in the “untrained” category as I was. And that was after several years of riding 2-3x weekly. After 3 months on TR I went from riding 19 to 21.
Maintaining once you get there is much easier. So bite the short term bullet for long term gains.
Someone that can do a 16 minute 5K already has good aerobic fitness and shouldn’t need to ride 6 times a week to get to 20 mph when cycling isn’t his main focus.
Now trying to get to 25 mph or so is another ballgame entirely and would require a much larger commitment to cycling than this guy is likely to want to make.
Why would running fitness automatically transfer to the bike? 20mph for an hour is not trivial for most non-cyclists (no matter their running or other fitness).
The only way I made it to the 20mph world was by riding 6x weekly for ~3 months. Try out Trainerroad, take an FTP test, then look at your Watts/kg. You’re likely in the “untrained” category as I was. And that was after several years of riding 2-3x weekly. After 3 months on TR I went from riding 19 to 21.
Maintaining once you get there is much easier. So bite the short term bullet for long term gains.
Someone that can do a 16 minute 5K already has good aerobic fitness and shouldn’t need to ride 6 times a week to get to 20 mph when cycling isn’t his main focus.
Now trying to get to 25 mph or so is another ballgame entirely and would require a much larger commitment to cycling than this guy is likely to want to make.
Why would running fitness automatically transfer to the bike? 20mph for an hour is not trivial for most non-cyclists (no matter their running or other fitness).
20mph should be a very easy goal for someone running a 16 min 5k. The aerobic fitness directly translates and a lot of the leg fitness also crosses over.
The OP just needs to bike more, and harder, to get whatever weak link it is in his leg muscles to no longer limit his bike performance. It’s probably just a combo of the quad muscle and the glute (butt) muscle as they’re used in slightly different ways in cycling.
Either way, 20mph should be a near-cakewalk once he’s biking more than once a week fairly hard. It’s very different from run vs swimming where there’s nearly no overlap.
The only way I made it to the 20mph world was by riding 6x weekly for ~3 months. Try out Trainerroad, take an FTP test, then look at your Watts/kg. You’re likely in the “untrained” category as I was. And that was after several years of riding 2-3x weekly. After 3 months on TR I went from riding 19 to 21.
Maintaining once you get there is much easier. So bite the short term bullet for long term gains.
Someone that can do a 16 minute 5K already has good aerobic fitness and shouldn’t need to ride 6 times a week to get to 20 mph when cycling isn’t his main focus.
Now trying to get to 25 mph or so is another ballgame entirely and would require a much larger commitment to cycling than this guy is likely to want to make.
Why would running fitness automatically transfer to the bike? 20mph for an hour is not trivial for most non-cyclists (no matter their running or other fitness).
20mph should be a very easy goal for someone running a 16 min 5k. The aerobic fitness directly translates and a lot of the leg fitness also crosses over.
The OP just needs to bike more, and harder, to get whatever weak link it is in his leg muscles to no longer limit his bike performance. It’s probably just a combo of the quad muscle and the glute (butt) muscle as they’re used in slightly different ways in cycling.
Either way, 20mph should be a near-cakewalk once he’s biking more than once a week fairly hard. It’s very different from run vs swimming where there’s nearly no overlap.
Yeah, because all that eccentric muscle fitness from running really carries over to 100% concentric muscle fitness in cycling…
The same things you would do to get faster at running. Namely - ride more (volume and frequency). Sometimes hard, sometimes easy. Would you expect to get better at running if you only ran 1-2 times per week?
That said, frequency is slightly less important to cycling than swimming and running. For triathletes who are juggling other sports like running and swimming, I think 4 days on the bike with 2 meaningful workouts and 2 easier days is reasonable (a typical week for me is 6-7 runs; 4-5 bikes; 2-4 swims). For cycling, that means 1 long ride (4.5-5.5 hours with longer efforts, climbs, steady riding mixed in), 1 medium ride (1.5-3 hours with intervals - 4x5 min; 4x10; 2x20 type efforts), and 2 easier rides (1-2 hours).
If you’re really only going to ride twice a week, then do 1 day of short intervals accumulating 20 min of work with equal rest to work ratio (ie 4x5 min with 5 min rest) and one day of longer intervals with 1/2 to 1/3 rest to work ratio (ie 4x10 with 5 min rest or 2x20 with 10 min rest). As with any workout, the intervals should be even effort or increase. Don’t blow your load on the first one and then soft pedal the remainder. If you’re doing two hard bike workouts, you’ll need to back-off your running work to 2 quality days - a long run and an interval/tempo day.
I started running after having a huge cycling background, so not exactly the same. But when I quit running and took up cycling again, I started off doing about 150 miles a week with one fartlek style ride where I punched it up every climb (or KOM!) and one longer ride where I was riding 30-60 minutes total at a sweetspot/threshold pace, usually broken down into 10-20 minute chunks.
Got me back in cycling shape very quickly. Again, adaptations will be different if you’re just starting out cycling, but just like running you have to get in a lot of consistent riding (5-6 days a week) with a variation of paces.
I was a sub 17 5k runner when I stopped and then I was putting out 300+ watts at threshold in a few weeks on the above schedule, which is a good bit over 20 mph.
20 miles in an hour is probably similar to a 20 minute 5k.
I think this is probably relatively accurate give or take. I know it probably doesn’t look it to someone running a 16 min 5k, but I don’t think a 20 minute 5k is all that slow. It’s not blazing speed by any means, but it’s going to take the person some work to get there (I’m a terrible runner and would be ecstatic with a 20 min 5k). You aren’t going to see too many people who go run 5k twice a week going sub 20 minutes. I’d say that’s pretty spot on for the 20 mph barrier as well. It’s certainly attainable, but I don’t think it’s a given that someone in decent shape can just do it.
I broke the barrier on the bike this year, and I think Trainerroad had a lot to do with it. Most of my rides were averaging around 18-19 mph (although almost all of them were longer than 20 miles). I probably did about 6 weeks of TR before a race earlier this year. 2-3 rides per week on the trainer along with an outdoor long/easy ride on the weekend. I came in averaging 22 mph. Now this was only 15 miles, but it was proceeded by a swim and followed by a run, so I’m certain I could have kept that for just a 20 mile bike, if not more (again, a terrible runner and have to keep a lot in the tank).
The only way I made it to the 20mph world was by riding 6x weekly for ~3 months. Try out Trainerroad, take an FTP test, then look at your Watts/kg. You’re likely in the “untrained” category as I was. And that was after several years of riding 2-3x weekly. After 3 months on TR I went from riding 19 to 21.
Maintaining once you get there is much easier. So bite the short term bullet for long term gains.
Someone that can do a 16 minute 5K already has good aerobic fitness and shouldn’t need to ride 6 times a week to get to 20 mph when cycling isn’t his main focus.
Now trying to get to 25 mph or so is another ballgame entirely and would require a much larger commitment to cycling than this guy is likely to want to make.
Why would running fitness automatically transfer to the bike? 20mph for an hour is not trivial for most non-cyclists (no matter their running or other fitness).
20mph should be a very easy goal for someone running a 16 min 5k. The aerobic fitness directly translates and a lot of the leg fitness also crosses over.
The OP just needs to bike more, and harder, to get whatever weak link it is in his leg muscles to no longer limit his bike performance. It’s probably just a combo of the quad muscle and the glute (butt) muscle as they’re used in slightly different ways in cycling.
Either way, 20mph should be a near-cakewalk once he’s biking more than once a week fairly hard. It’s very different from run vs swimming where there’s nearly no overlap.
Yeah, because all that eccentric muscle fitness from running really carries over to 100% concentric muscle fitness in cycling…
Nobody said 100% x-over.
But you’re kidding yourself if you think a 16 min 5k runner is going to have a hard time hitting 20mph.
Unless that runner is an 85 pound female (hence less leg power), he’s gonna hit 20 min on the bike in a matter of weeks or less. All because of the huge x-over between run/bike for the untrained cyclist.
The only way I made it to the 20mph world was by riding 6x weekly for ~3 months. Try out Trainerroad, take an FTP test, then look at your Watts/kg. You’re likely in the “untrained” category as I was. And that was after several years of riding 2-3x weekly. After 3 months on TR I went from riding 19 to 21.
Maintaining once you get there is much easier. So bite the short term bullet for long term gains.
Someone that can do a 16 minute 5K already has good aerobic fitness and shouldn’t need to ride 6 times a week to get to 20 mph when cycling isn’t his main focus.
Now trying to get to 25 mph or so is another ballgame entirely and would require a much larger commitment to cycling than this guy is likely to want to make.
Why would running fitness automatically transfer to the bike? 20mph for an hour is not trivial for most non-cyclists (no matter their running or other fitness).
Who said anything about it carrying over automatically? Of course he needs to develop cycling specific fitness, but he doesn’t need to ride 6 times a week to do that. Two times a week is pretty minimal but with an intensity-based approach he can make significant gains. He should be definitely able to reach that goal on 3x a week. 20 mph isn’t trivial but this guy has a decent engine and at least for relatively flat terrain isn’t really that lofty of a goal, I can average that on 150 watts or so on a relatively flat training ride on my tri bike even without full race setup.
20 miles in an hour is probably similar to a 20 minute 5k.
I think this is probably relatively accurate give or take. I know it probably doesn’t look it to someone running a 16 min 5k, but I don’t think a 20 minute 5k is all that slow. It’s not blazing speed by any means, but it’s going to take the person some work to get there (I’m a terrible runner and would be ecstatic with a 20 min 5k). You aren’t going to see too many people who go run 5k twice a week going sub 20 minutes. I’d say that’s pretty spot on for the 20 mph barrier as well. It’s certainly attainable, but I don’t think it’s a given that someone in decent shape can just do it.
I broke the barrier on the bike this year, and I think Trainerroad had a lot to do with it. Most of my rides were averaging around 18-19 mph (although almost all of them were longer than 20 miles). I probably did about 6 weeks of TR before a race earlier this year. 2-3 rides per week on the trainer along with an outdoor long/easy ride on the weekend. I came in averaging 22 mph. Now this was only 15 miles, but it was proceeded by a swim and followed by a run, so I’m certain I could have kept that for just a 20 mile bike, if not more (again, a terrible runner and have to keep a lot in the tank).
No way 20mph is similar to a 20min 5k on a flat or even mildly rolling course.
Holding 20mph for a flattish half ironman often doesn’t even crack the top 25% of men on the bike. And that’s for 3.5+ hours, while saving enough to run a half marathon.
Run a 20 min 5k splits for a 1.5 hrs in an OPEN half marathon (not even a HIM), and you’re easily in the top 10% of men in the vast majority of open half marathons, if not top 5%. Run those splits in a HIM, and you’re likely winning your AG on the run.
A lot of guys who can easily do 20mph not only for an hour, but for 56+ miles, can’t run a 20 min 5k.
I expected the “why bother” comments with the tiny amount of time i’m committing. I hear ya. I’m not expecting huge improvements. And I probably could bump up that time for a while.
I should also clarify some, I’ve been doing almost no biking recently and 20mi in an hour is not really a goal. I just used that to give an idea of the disparity in my run/bike fitness. A few summers ago I did 21+ in an hour on my normal route. I’d ride about 4 hours /wk, hard but aimlessly. I was not running at the time.
My goal for now is simply to maximize bike performance within the limits of my time commitment. I don’t want to do it aimlessly as I have in the past. My problem is obviously the different muscular demands. But what is the best way to work on that aside from bike more often. Is it long & steady rides, threshold, hills… I dunno.
As for what I have available, I have a lot of long rural roads outside my door, mostly flat. I’ve got one hill that’s 1/2 mile at 5% (max 8%).
I expected the “why bother” comments with the tiny amount of time i’m committing. I hear ya. I’m not expecting huge improvements. And I probably could bump up that time for a while.
I should also clarify some, I’ve been doing almost no biking recently and 20mi in an hour is not really a goal. I just used that to give an idea of the disparity in my run/bike fitness. A few summers ago I did 21+ in an hour on my normal route. I’d ride about 4 hours /wk, hard but aimlessly. I was not running at the time.
My goal for now is simply to maximize bike performance within the limits of my time commitment. I don’t want to do it aimlessly as I have in the past. My problem is obviously the different muscular demands. But what is the best way to work on that aside from bike more often. Is it long & steady rides, threshold, hills… I dunno.
As for what I have available, I have a lot of long rural roads outside my door, mostly flat. I’ve got one hill that’s 1/2 mile at 5% (max 8%).