Are Nalgene bottles safe?

Is there any validity to this?

… Millions of polycarbonate Nalgene bottles are purchased every year, and consumers tend to use the same bottle for extended periods of time. Normal wear and tear, dishwashing, and exposure to hot liquids cause polycarbonate plastics to leach bisphenol. So, the bottles designed for long-term extended use, actually become more dangerous the more you use them instead of disposable bottles.
We’re sorry to break the news, but it’s best to stop using your polycarbonate water bottle, especially if it is older than six months. …

http://www.ecopledge.com/detoxnalgene/index.htm

fuck. i’m so sick of everything, can’t there just be one thing that’s not going to kill me???!!!

what about SIG bottles?

Don’t ever wash it in the dishwasher, don’t microwave it, and don’t put boiling water in it… Seriously though, if you’re worried, get yourself a nice SIGG to sip from!

They’re safe. There is no credible, hard science that shows otherwise. If it is a real Lexan nalgene bottle, it is medical grade Lexan and thus non-pourous and non staining. In general I would never put boiling water in it, but for jsut about everything else it’s good to go.

Bob

Classic “Nalgene” bottles are the epitomy of inertness as they are made of a blend of mostly polypropylene and a small amount of polyethylene for flexibility. Polycarbonate is a much stiffer material, more brittle unless blended or copolymerized with something else, subject to crazing (cracking fractured appearance), and rumours of bisphenol residuals or tendency to produce bisphenol residues.

Nalgene should be a trade marked material, so if it says it is Nalgene somewhere on the container, you should be in good shape. I would run it through a dishwasher with no worries as well.

Holy cow, are you the guy from The Graduate? You know, the husband of the woman who does Dustin Hofman. I figured its a myth and was confident in the infinite st wisdom to help me see the way. Thanks for the replies.

** I want to say one word to you. Just one word.**

I never had a clue how prophetic those words were at the time.

:wink:

Classic “Nalgene” bottles are the epitomy of inertness as they are made of a blend of mostly polypropylene and a small amount of polyethylene for flexibility.

i am curious about this. i have used all types of nalgene-branded bottles, but recently i have been using the polycarbonate nalgenes. but earlier i used the polypropylene nalgene bottles a lot more, and never washed any of them in a dishwasher or used them with very hot water, just washed them by hand.

so about the nalgene polypropylene bottles, if they are the “epitomy of inertness”, why would pure water that remained in the bottles for, say 8 hours, at 75 deg. F (about room temp.), the drinking water in them then gets a very noticable ‘plastic, polypropylene’ taste? is not some part of the plastic going into the water? educate me here.

Excuse the cut and paste job - but back when I played ultimate and wasted time on rec.sport.disc (i.e. before I started doing tris and wasting my time on slowtwitch) a similar discussion started up.
The whole thing is at
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.sport.disc/browse_thread/thread/568690a4bd757678/eb6cf42a5a9b1ed1?lnk=gst&q=nalgene&rnum=2#

But the most interesting entry was from a grad student in the sciences, who wrote this:

I read , and my interest was piqued. My
Nalgene bottle was sitting next to me on my desk, and I had been steadily
drinking from it all day. As a biologist who studies hormones, I’ve heard
a lot about “environmental estrogens” like BPA, and their effects on
reproduction and development, so the studies described weren’t entirely
surprising. But I’ve also read a lot of science articles, and I have to
say that a lot of crappy research gets published in respected science
journals, particularly when it deals with a very media-friendly topic. So
I set off on a completely nerdy 5-hour quest through about 150 abstracts
and at least 20 journal articles to try to figure out how compelling the
relationship is between Nalgene bottles, BPA, and biological effects.
And now that I’ve spent all that time, and missed my workout and various
other things I was planning to get done tonight, I feel the need to burden
your inbox with my results. Feel free to stop reading now and delete this
(if you haven’t already).

    There is no question that BPA is what's called an "endocrine 

disruptor," or a chemical that either mimics or interferes with (or both)
the normal action of hormones like estrogen and testosterone. In lab
animals and cultured cells, high doses of BPA have effects similar to
those of estrogen. They can disrupt reproductive develoment and possibly
contribute to cancer. These doses are on average about 1,000 times higher
than the highest reported level of leaching from any polycarbonate
plastic.

    The big question is whether low doses of BPA (or other endocrine 

disruptors), such as you might experience in your average daily
plasticized environment, also have significant harmful effects. The
answer is, as far as I can tell, “maybe.” Several studies have shown an
effect of low doses on things like uterine weight and sperm count in mice.
Several other studies, in other labs, have failed to replicate those
results (using as close to the same methods as possible, and often using
larger sample sizes). Also, there’s some evidence that BPA gets
metabolized (broken down and removed from the body) pretty quickly, so
we’re not talking about a DDT-type accumulation effect. I’m not saying
that the original studies were bad or wrong, but science is all about
replication, i.e. if the effect isn’t consistent, is it really meaningful?
In the end, I didn’t come away convinced that there’s a solid effect (but
that doesn’t mean there isn’t one).

    The other big question is whether your **Nalgene** is leaching gobs of 

BPA into your drinking water. The folks at ourstolenfuture do a nice job
of pointing out that the Lexan used in Nalgene bottles hasn’t been
specifically tested, but there have been tests done on other polycarbonate
plastics like lab animal cages and baby bottles. All of those studies
have shown some amount of leaching under some conditions, particularly
when subject to high heat over long periods of time. However, one study
reports detectable leaching from brand-new polycarb animal cages at room
temperature, whereas another reports no leaching from baby bottles
subjected to typical use. Another study reports miniscule amounts of BPA
in water that was sitting in a polycarb container for 39 weeks. Again,
the answer seems to be, “maybe.”

    To put this into perspective, If you take the highest BPA amounts 

from the 39-week experiment above, and assume that you’re getting that
much BPA in your water every time you fill up your Nalgene, and figure
you drink 2 bottles a day, you’re still getting less than one-hundredth of
the lowest dose used in animal experiments. Now, since no one has
specifically studied Lexan, and I hope that someone does that test soon, I
don’t know whether that’s a realistic scenario. Regardless, I can tell
you that it’s probably more likely to leach BPA if you repeatedly stick it
in the dishwasher versus gently rinsing it out with warm water.

    By raising the scientific controversy, I don't mean to detract 

from the concern, or from the hard work of the folks who are trying to
understand the effects of environmental estrogens. I believe that it is a
problem, and requires more research. And of course, it’s easy for
regulatory agencies and industries to say that there isn’t clear evidence
for , rather than trying to do something
about it.
As far as the Nalgene bottles go, it’s not a bad idea to switch if
you care about this kind of thing - if nothing else, it will make you feel
safer, and there’s a chance that it might make some difference to your
kids. It certainly won’t hurt to switch to an HDPE or metal water bottle
(at least, not until someone finds something that leaches out of them).
Just because you’re ingesting way more BPA from covering your food in
plastic wrap than you probably are from your Nalgene doesn’t mean that
it’s ok. But at this point I’m not going to freak out about the fact that
I’ve been drinking out of mine for years. In fact, all this typing is
making me thirsty…

Nice.

Anyway I woudl worry more about our water bottle on the bike than our nalgene on the desk. i know that if I leave water in a new (or sometimes old) bike water bottles I can taste that plastic whatever. of course the same goes for many kinds of bottled water. anyway isn’t Al (Sigg) supposed to cause Alzimers or something? i know that Sigg coats the inside with some “inert” compound, but how long does that last? I suppose that glass is the best, but try finding that around anymore (well other than beer bottles).

Good question. Unfortunately, long answer with the bottom line, I am not sure.

Regarding plastics in general, there are generally a lot of additives, which modify the bulk plastic properties to meet specific product requirements. This can vary from 40% of the total wieght in the case of plasticizers added to PVC (a lot of the plastic used in cars, that produced that greasy film on the inside of the windshileds on hot days), to antioxidants and UV inhibitors that are present in concentrations of a few parts per thousand, which are added to the bulk of all most all plastics.

Furthermore, there are processing aides, such as mold releases which help remove the plastic item from the mold when it is made, and slip agents which are added to plastic film resins for making things like garbage bags and what not.

Now, just about every additive that I know of, is basically not perfectly compatible with the plastic. In other words, it tends to migrate out of the plastic, to the surface of the material. Once there, it can leach into the contents of the container from the inside surface.

For the “classic” polypro/polyethylene Nalgene containers that I mentioned, these are high molecular weight polymers. There is no leaching of small polymer chains or individual monomer units. However, there are still plenty of additives, the mold release agents, antioxidants and UV inhibitors present. These are perfectly legal, and are present even in containers used for IV solutions. I suppose they may be a factor with respect to taste. Although, having tested hundreds of plasric IV containers and measured said levels, I find it a low probability that one would detect a taste.

thanks for the in-depth reply. it all makes sense. so with the PET nalgenes, i must be tasting some kind of additive(s).

interesting, as i have had the PET nalgenes for probably 10+ years, and i am no gourmet, but i can still easily taste and smell the ‘plastic’ flavor’ in the water if the water sits in them at room temp.s for a few hours.

much to learn …

Plastics?

Hello my fellow plastics nerd. Great to have some company.

It has to be better than my 10 year old Hydrobak that I used this weekend again. When in reality it should have been replaced years ago. For those of you who are wincing right now, I just threw it out and replaced it with a new Camelbak.
I wouldn’t worry about it too much. The crap that everyone eats will probably kill you first. Or maybe the smog in the big cities. Heck might even be that bus that’s going too fast down the road.
Fill’r up and guzzle it down. Don’t sweat the small stuff.

I’m no expert, but it looks to me like there is (at best) disagreement on the subject. This is probably one of those things where if you expose yourself to a zillion doses of it there might be an effect, but if you use the product normally there’s no issue.

Here’s some opposing viewpoints and research studies on the issue.

http://www.bisphenol-a.org/pdf/FactSheet-human.pdf
http://www.bisphenol-a.org/pdf/FactSheet-endocrine.pdf
http://www.bisphenol-a.org/human/consafety.html#top#top

Research references:
http://www.bisphenol-a.org/human/herReferences.html

Form your own conclusions.

not sure if i’d be using any info from the “bisphenol A global industry group” (the source of the doc.s above) as any way to get a real feel for the facts behind the ‘opposing opinion’.

might the folks in that industry group have just a teeny tiny little interest in the outcome of this debate?

i’d say, yup !

Like I said, it’s just an opposing opinion on the subject. Maybe they have ulterior motives or maybe they’re just defending their industry against an attack from zelots. Who knows? Both sides usually have some interest in the outcome of any argument. Read the data and draw your own conclusions.

I think it’s interesting that this whole scare came from an article titled “Compound in plastic bottles causes abnormal pregnancies in mice.” ( http://www.case.edu/pubs/cnews/2003/4-10/plastic.htm ). I personally don’t have any of these bottles because I threw them away when I was pregnant and have replaced them with a different type of bottle.