My race day shoe in 2019 was the Vaprofly 4% and I also picked up a pair of the Next%. Fast forward to a year without races, and I have an unused pair of Next% I am planning to use as race shoes. However, I recently picked up a pair of the Saucony Endorphin Speed, and holy crap - they area awesome! I’ve used them for a long run with some efforts and a bit of track work. The Endorphin Speed feels as good, if not better than, the 4% or Next%, and it’s got me thinking about the Endorphin Pro. So, has anyone gone from Nike over to the Saucony camp for a race shoe.
PS - Synthetic, you don’t need to add any comments here.
I’m pretty sure(could be wrong and sorry in advance if I am) that Big Metz got a pair of Saucony Endorphins last year when the Next% was nearly impossible to find but ended up going back to Nike as a race shoe when they were available again. I can’t personally speak about the Sauconys but I have the 4% and next% and can’t imagine any shoe being much better than those shoes for race day.
I have both the speed and the pro, the pro is just a little bit stiffer and lighter than the speed. I’m definitely picking the endorphins for races because they provide way better support and are going to provide you way more leeway when your form and speed start to falter toward the end of a race.
I train in the Endorphin Speed and race in the Next%. The Endorphin foam in not nearly as bouncy as the ZoomX foam. It’s a very different feeling shoe.
Just on your last point about form I would love to read a triathletes reviews (preferably age group, not pro) of all the super shoes having been put through decent length brick sessions (ideally races, but obviously that isn’t happening anytime soon).
It’s difficult to make a purchasing decision when the reviews are only done by runners, or in a pure running context.
It would be great to know which are better for front/mid/back of pack after 56 or 112 bike miles when the legs are trashed.
I train in the Endorphin Speed and race in the Next%. The Endorphin foam in not nearly as bouncy as the ZoomX foam. It’s a very different feeling shoe… Exactly the same here. Train in Speed and race in Next%. And feel the same on the “bounce” and feel between the 2 diff types of foam, etc.
Just on your last point about form I would love to read a triathletes reviews (preferably age group, not pro) of all the super shoes having been put through decent length brick sessions (ideally races, but obviously that isn’t happening anytime soon).
We need to get a test going like the Slowtwitch crow-sourced wind tunnel testing that has happened on a (few?) occassions. I like watching Demoor’s shoe reviews…but I can fit him in my pocket and have to consider our weight differences!
in principle i am making this switch but for one reason and another have not been doing much fast running so haven’t really done much trial yet.
my feel is that the endorphins are perhaps not quite as fast as nikes but a lot more stable which might be enough to flip the balance in longer runs.
the pro are pretty similar to the speed, just a bit better - lighter and more pop. firmer and less bouncy than nikes
I have the Vaporfly and I do feel a boost in speed and less beating on my old legs for long runs. I use them on long trainning runs (10+ miles). But they wear out so fast! (I know its a racing shoe, but I can appreciate the extra cushioning). I got the Endorphin Speed yesterday for training, and to spare the Nike for racing. My first impression: I really like the Endorphin, a bit more stable for my heel and nice “roll forward”. I am not giving up on the Vaporfly, but I will try the Endophin for racing also.
I also have used Next %'s since December 2019 and just recently had the same thought about the Endorphin Pro’s: are they better?
Just bought a pair last week and will try them out at 70.3 Texas next weekend. We’ll see which I like better!
I’ll be interested on what you think.
To me, the Endorphin Speed feels very similar to my older flyknit 4%, but those have around 200 miles on them. I haven’t run in my Next% in a long time, but maybe I should do some sort of test at a similar effort and HR on the track between the Speed and Next% to see what the difference is. I do like the fit of the Endorphin Speed much more than the Next% - not a huge fan of that asymmetric lacing and upper on the Next%, but they are fast.
A while ago Nike had the custom option for the next% where you could get the upper in the flyknit. So basically it looks like the upper on 4% flyknit but has the next% sole which has more magical foam and feels a bit more stable. Which I agree, feels much better than the upper in the normal next%.
They did just release the next%2 which seems to be a different upper, doesn’t look like it would bunch up as much. And it’s a few bucks cheaper.
Please be advised the Endorphin Speed and Endorphin Pro are considerably different shoes. The Speed is soft and feels somewhat similar to the Vaporfly 4% and Next %. The Speed was named shoe of the year (2020) by many shoe reviewers.
The Pro is much firmer. I hated it and had to send it back. While some people might like the ride it is MUCH firmer than the aforementioned shoes.
If you like the Speed for training, get the Next % version 2 for racing. Or the Alphafly. Or just race in the Speed. Just beware the Pro is an entirely different animal.
I’ve been training in the Nike Zoom Flyknit and racing in the ZoomFly 4%. Nike seems to have discontinued the Zoom Flyknit so I have switched over to the Endorphin Speed with the plan of eventually upgrading to the Pro as a race shoe.
The Speeds are much wider in the toe box, and the Pro doesn’t wrap the foot the same way the Nike does and I do miss the Flyknit upper.
In my experience the Nike is a softer shoe overall than the Endorphin to start but the ZoomX foam does pack out so eventually you don’t get the moon boot/bounce house feel after a couple of races.
I like the lacing better on the Saucony as well, it seems to hold the foot a little snugger. One of my major concerns with the Nike’s was that due to the soft foam, flyknit upper and high stack, your foot can slide out a bit which is a little unnerving on corners.
I’ve had all three. The Nike’s leave me way less beat up for long runs, and I do feel I am faster in them. I can train in the speeds but my legs take more of a beating in them than the nikes. The Pros I found very uncomfortable to run in and sent them back.
good article here on subject Seeking the Fastest Shoe in the Post-Vaporfly Era | Outside Online
i have nike nextgen4% and i find the fit “ok”. i moved to saucony endorphin trainer shoes and absolutely love them. and at $200CAN the price point is manageable. I will definitely get a pair of speeds and their racers for the marathon season.
the nextgen were the first Nike shoe i have ever bought and it brings me joy i don’t have to go back finding Saucony better fit and by Elmore’s test linked above comparable. And they are way cheaper.
For you and really everyone, try them on and see what shoe feels best on your feet.
Given the range of improvement in these shoes, that 3-7% range, unless you’re going to buy both pair and do testing to find out which is actually the fastest for you, buy the one that feels the best when you try it on.
For some of you reading this the endorphin pro is going to be the faster shoe, for others the Nike will be the faster shoe.
Don’t do the mail order route, go try them on. That’s the only way to know.
If you’re looking for shoes I have them in stock. Send me a PM. I can chat with you about what you’re in, what you like/dislike about your current shoes and then make a recommendation.
Really cool article, thanks for sharing. I identify with her concern over supporting Nike’s ethics by buying their shoes (no idea if saucony is any better). Yet I still race in my next% because I’m a hypocrite
I wonder if there’s a market for the testing she did. Something analogous to an aero consultation on the bike. Come run in the top 5 shoes and find out which ones grant the best efficiency for your stride. The article cited a study that found 1-7% savings in running economy (Next% vs track spikes, so the spread across different athletes is the most interesting thing there).
I guess you could order 5 pairs and run in them for a week and then return them, but that seems shady.
