Thanks.
I’m not really sure… but I’ll hazard a guess.
Maybe its Felt?
Underpaid workers in Taiwan…
It’s been hashed out many-0-times regarding OEMs, but the reality is that manufacturers can “somewhat easily” switch from one OEM to another while keeping the specs. Same holds true for raw materials. So…when you find your answer, it may very well change for next season. Of course, some relationships are better/more loyal than others. Some OEMs are “made to order” while others will create their own template and sell private label.
I know that doesn’t answer your answer, sorry.
I can tell you with some authority that it is neither Martec (Kuota, Kestrel et al) or Ten Tech (Cervelo, Scott, etc).
I have an F1 and it is really an exceptional bike. Grossly under rated. It is absurdly light at aroung 15 pounds including the Mavic Cosmic Carbone clinchers (not the lightest wheels) and rides very nicely. It was a blast tearing it up on the roads of Curacao when I got this thing.
Neither is the case here, but I’ll agree that some are done that way. Everything Felt builds is a Felt design. We do not outsource the engineering. I sit with these guys every day and pour over ideas and designs. The DA was created in Lake Forest, CA. From the first clay and plastic mold to the final drawings the molds were cut from, that is a 100% Felt designed item.
The F1 has its roots from Jim Felt building bikes way back, from Johnny O’s custom rig that graced a few magazines’ covers in the mid-90s, to Chris Horner’s custom F1 while he sawed the legs of the domestic pro field. Since those superlight Easton tubed bikes have fallen out of fashion (our last Made in USA Easton Scandium frames were made in 2004ish) and carbon is the best material to make sub 900 gram frames from, Felt has designed their F1 carbon chassis from that original geometry and legnedary ride quality as its benchmark.
Originally a Toray fiber sourced carbon bike, we now use a blend of carbon fibers, tough fibers for durability and compliance and stiff fibers for rigidity. It is this blend and custom lay-up that is tweaked and tested by our engineers. I have the good fortune of being the big fat guy at the office, so I’m frequently the test pilot for each stage of a frames life. I’ve seen our 755 gram prototype Z frames and ridden a few thousand miles on an early production 800 gram F frame. The frames set the benchmark for low weight, but additional stiffness and durability is then built into the bikes. We’ve got custom lay ups and designs all using the same mold but with 600 gram variance in weight. Each lay up is chosen for its particular size model and intended use. Our current F1 is considered the best balance of stiffness, light weight, cockpit compliance and precise responsive front end handling. The bike will be headed to the cobbles of France this spring and has already put its stamp on the US and European feild.
This is not guesswork, this is homework, and we do it. If you want more answers, keep the questions coming.
-SD
This is not guesswork, this is homework, and we do it. If you want more answers, keep the questions coming.
-SD
Badass.
I have added this quote to my mental image of you as a dude who wears dark glasses and rides 1:02 for the kilometer.
My glasses are light blue and I’m 6 seconds away.
If you want more answers, keep the questions coming.
Where is the F1 made and by whom?
It’s funny that he won’t answer this question. Why doesn’t he want us to know? Or maybe he doesn’t know himself who makes the frames day to day.
If you want more answers, keep the questions coming.
Where is the F1 made and by whom?
WARNING HIJACKING ATTEMPT IN PROGRESS:
Since he won’t tell, lets try to figure out (make up) a reason as to why a manufacturer would not want anyone to know where there frames are made.
I’ll Start:
- Backlash cause it’s made in Taiwan? – Nah, we already believe that.
- So no one buys copies? – all you gotta do is look carefully to see if there cut from the same mold?
- To slow corporate espionage? – Maybee
- Its made somewhere other than Asia and they don’t want that getting out? – Ya ya I like this one, maybe there made by penguins in Antarctica?
Neither is the case here, but I’ll agree that some are done that way. Everything Felt builds is a Felt design. We do not outsource the engineering. I sit with these guys every day and pour over ideas and designs. The DA was created in Lake Forest, CA. From the first clay and plastic mold to the final drawings the molds were cut from, that is a 100% Felt designed item.
The F1 has its roots from Jim Felt building bikes way back, from Johnny O’s custom rig that graced a few magazines’ covers in the mid-90s, to Chris Horner’s custom F1 while he sawed the legs of the domestic pro field. Since those superlight Easton tubed bikes have fallen out of fashion (our last Made in USA Easton Scandium frames were made in 2004ish) and carbon is the best material to make sub 900 gram frames from, Felt has designed their F1 carbon chassis from that original geometry and legnedary ride quality as its benchmark.
Originally a Toray fiber sourced carbon bike, we now use a blend of carbon fibers, tough fibers for durability and compliance and stiff fibers for rigidity. It is this blend and custom lay-up that is tweaked and tested by our engineers. I have the good fortune of being the big fat guy at the office, so I’m frequently the test pilot for each stage of a frames life. I’ve seen our 755 gram prototype Z frames and ridden a few thousand miles on an early production 800 gram F frame. The frames set the benchmark for low weight, but additional stiffness and durability is then built into the bikes. We’ve got custom lay ups and designs all using the same mold but with 600 gram variance in weight. Each lay up is chosen for its particular size model and intended use. Our current F1 is considered the best balance of stiffness, light weight, cockpit compliance and precise responsive front end handling. The bike will be headed to the cobbles of France this spring and has already put its stamp on the US and European feild.
This is not guesswork, this is homework, and we do it. If you want more answers, keep the questions coming.
-SD
Wow, some great stuff, great final quote also.
I was wondering, if you wouldn’t mind, sharing with us where the F1 is made, and by whom. Thank you so much.
The chaps at ST.
In 2006, they had a mountain bike recall for brake failures for models from 2004 to 2006. The frames were made by Kinesis in Taiwan. What does that say about where the F1 is made - I don’t know.
Why is the factory important. Dave has already stated that it uses their design, mold and carbon/lay up, so is the address of the plant really important? One problem with buying a carbon bike made at the same factory as the F1, that looks the same under a generic name is that the lay up and carbon could be much different than what Felt specifies, making it not the same frame at all.
Styrrell
Nothing. They aren’t related. Don’t mean to come of as sounding less than cordial, but My Friend, that is quite a stretch…
To some people it is important where a product is made.
You don’t sound “less than cordial at all.” I took 1.5 seconds googling “where are Felt frames manufactured.” That recall came up and posted it as a possibility and that’s why I indicated the mountain bike location may have nothing to do with the F1. Which you confirmed.
Frankly, I don’t care where they’re made. Sweet looking frames. However, there does seem to be some sort of conspiracy on this thread to hide the actual birth place of the F1 - Roswell? Area 51? perhaps. Don’t mean to go all Oliver Stone on you.
I don’t think the information about which specific factory manufactures the frame is important. We can acertain from Dave’s response that Felt does not produce the frame “in-house”. There are not many companies that have the infrastructure, capital, or expertise in manufacturing to produce their frames in house. A safe bet is that it is produced in one of the handful of quality factories in Taiwan or mainland China (Sorry, not many frames are still made in the USA, or Europe for that matter). However, what should be taken from Dave’s information is that Felt takes the time to perform the engineering analysis and design (AKA runs the numbers). This shows they know their stuff from a design perspective and care about the outcome. I’d certainly have that rather than a company faxing a sketch to a factory and saying" make it this light/stiff/color/etc.". Or possibly worse: a parasitic company that buys, rebadges, and distributes a copy of another companies design.
Why is the factory important. Dave has already stated that it uses their design, mold and carbon/lay up, so is the address of the plant really important? One problem with buying a carbon bike made at the same factory as the F1, that looks the same under a generic name is that the lay up and carbon could be much different than what Felt specifies, making it not the same frame at all.
Styrrell
it’s almost like one of those ‘it’s not the crime, it’s the cover up’ situations.
i didn’t care that much until superdave dodged the question. now i’m curious.
i’ve said this before - it’s not specific to felt - i have no problem with a bike being manufactured in taiwan. i do like the idea of a bike manufactured in the same place (or at least in proximity to) where it was designed/engineered, where the company is based, etc. but i realize what the trade offs are. i also think that companies having their bikes manufactured in taiwan should embrace that fact, and not be so hush-hush about it. of course, i don’t know where felt’s actual frames are made (and by made i mean manufactured, not designed), and if it’s taiwan or not.
-charles
I don’t really blame Felt for not disclosing who their CM is. We use many CM’s where I work and we consider it confidential biz info. This is just a fact of life in today’s global economy. I think Dave is a great resource on the site…even for a sales guy 
I have no idea about the F1, but my 3 year old B2 was delivered with a small Made in Taiwan sticker on it, which I removed straight away! Having said that it didn’t bother me at all and bothered me even less when the bike got me to Kona.