Anyone junkyard dog race? $200 bike

Triathlon Forum
1

no chance of overall podium today being I am in old man wave start these days. So decided to do the tri on $200 no aero bar road bike with tannus tires (ok add $160). got 3rd in my AG. The top 3 overall guy also on a road bike. It was fun beating many people on tri bikes… which everyone is poorly fitted on, riding the base bars, etc. Moral of the story is, stop trying to buy speed! I just feel so bad when people get conned into something that wont work for them because of certain influencers.

It would be great if RD’s / USAT would make a non aerobar division for the bike, to attract more people to the sport that dont want to go all in on the gear. When racing in mexico, all bike with aerobars got 1 minute added to their time (which is arbitrary # and should be some percent instead).

2

Congrats. I think it would add more people if there was a separate non aero bar or non tri bike division. Or maybe a division of bikes by price (joking).
Under 1k
1k-2.5k
2.5k-5k
5k+

Based on retail

3

I’m always the guy arguing against this idea as the costing doesn’t really work out IMO as much at the end of the day as you think it would help.

But…I would like it from the standpoint that I’m a bike person and making the bike leg longer would bias a benefit towards myself.

Furthermore, keeping the distances the same and doing gravel tri or duathlon.

4.3:1 ratio is pretty fair, but tri bikes IMO do help weaker cyclists in multisport a lot more than a road bike would.

4

The key question is how fast were you going for what distance?

I have tannus tires and I would go from having the fastest bike split at some local races to 40th or worse with my road bike with tannus tires.

5

The key question is how fast were you going for what distance?

I have tannus tires and I would go from having the fastest bike split at some local races to 40th or worse with my road bike with tannus tires.

it was a sprint. pothole filled road, yea on longer distance it would be a sufferfest, especially downhills that is were I really feel the resistance and still have to pedal. wish I had a power meter on the bike.

6

100% agree. I was at USAT Multisport Nats (really well done and fun event BTW) this weekend and Saturday’s awards ceremony, demographically, may as well have been for pickle ball awards at the The Villages. I’m aging up into the over 55 community demo to be clear.

The introduction of road bike only TT divisions boosted TT attendance to my eye.

We need something to give be the sport a future

7

The key question is how fast were you going for what distance?

I have tannus tires and I would go from having the fastest bike split at some local races to 40th or worse with my road bike with tannus tires.

it was a sprint. pothole filled road, yea on longer distance it would be a sufferfest, especially downhills that is were I really feel the resistance and still have to pedal. wish I had a power meter on the bike.

Yeah - I find that Tannus tires are at their worst (greatest speed losses) at highest speeds. For training, this is great, as you can still put out 200w on a downhill and not max out your gears, but obviously terrible for most triathlons which lack major hills. For me, the Tannus tires seem to give up minimal speed on significant hill climbs where overall speeds go down - when I take them on my lunch training rides, it’s common for me to blow by other riders on climbs and have them pass me back on the downhill afterwards - whereas with normal tires, if I pass them on the hillclimb, I’m pretty much never passed back.

If you could have one of the fastest bike splits with a road bike Tannus tires, a very mediocre above-average triathlon cyclist with a TT bike and aero helmet would have likely outsplit you on the day, unfortunately.

I do have powermeters on my road+tannus bike and my TT bike, and I’m very consistent across efforts for various zones, so I know the real penalty of the Tannus tires in the setting of power.

Tannus tires are great for training like I do at lunch though - zero pumping up, zero flats, and you can work on the downhills. When your TT bike’s got latex tubes that have to be pumped every time, you do notice the annoyance!

8

I will also add -

I used to be like you - ‘don’t buy speed, just train harder!’ and I did ok for myself on a legit Cevelo P2c with aero helmet. Usually a top 15-20% bike split in local and regional races.

Then I got the money last year to get the full aero setup - Premier Tactical with disc+88 wheels, latex tubes, Giro Aerohead, fast trisuit (Roka / Castelli) and aero hydration setups. My bike position didn’t change much - we mapped my old position to my new bike pretty much and it’s hard to go lower as I’m in-between sizes and don’t want 650c wheels for the smaller bike.

Contrary to my prior beliefs and what people say - it was an utter game-changer. First off, training with an awesome bike setup is FUN. Like so fun that you want to bike more and more, which makes you stronger and stronger. I’ve always enjoyed cycling, but when you’re rocking on the roads in Norcal and everyone is staring at your setup slack-jawed, or even giving you compliments at the stoplights (happens all the time, amazingly, here in Norcal), you just want to train more. Next - the aero benefits are real when you put it all together. My average speeds in Olys is 2.5mph faster than it was with my Cervelo P2c, and with only 20-30watts more power, which at 23-25mph, indicates much more of an aero contribution to speed than power. (Most calculators will say you will need 50-100+ watts to get 2mph at those speeds).

Seriously, if you’ve never tried going ‘all-aero’, you don’t know what you are missing, it’s that good!

9

On tannus tires?? Impressive.

Got a photo of your $200 rocketship? Would love to see it.

10

You can carry that thought for as long as you’re beating someone with more expensive gear can’t you? If that makes you feel better. But what’s the point?

Stop trying to buy speed? Feeling bad for people being conned? People can actually buy speed you know, I do, that helps me place higher. If you fancy finishing slower than you could good for you. And if you say the result is the same then stop being a big fish in a small pond.

I just did an 18.5km loop TT today. Went 43.6 km/h on 270 watts, with sub par pavement. Nobody came close to my time under 290 watts. Most of that difference was intelligent application of bought gear. I beat the guy with the top of the line custom livery SC, Le Col TT suit, etc. But I don’t care. I just care about getting the lowest time I can within the rules of the race (UCI in this case) through managed investments in training and equipment.

11

Congrats. I think it would add more people if there was a separate non aero bar or non tri bike division. Or maybe a division of bikes by price (joking).
Under 1k
1k-2.5k
2.5k-5k
5k+

Based on retail
There’s a category of grassroots motorsport in Scandinavia I think where post-race, anyone can offer EU500 or something for anyone else’s car, and if you get an offer you have to accept it. That would be a fun rule.

12

24 hours of Lemons in the US

Either way I have a fair say in the conversation as I started racing TT on a trashed frameset I got for free and carbon repaired for $40 and put about $400 into in cockpit, wheels, and tires and such. Cheapest skinsuit I could get, and a old stock Giro Adv 2. Yeah, it was a royal PIA to bike fit it without modern touches. Is my current Trinity “superbike” faster, yeah.

If I could reproduce the fit on the 2008 Felt DA I have on the Trinity now, speed difference in kit only? Maybe 1/4 mph?

Part of the conversation with tri and tt around aero bars boils down to people can’t be bothered to think sometimes in sports. People hate on the ones who bother to think. They want to be dumb jocks and just mash harder to win. Aero takes thought.

It’s 50% cost and “another bike” and 50% of “don’t want to be bothered to problem solve to go faster”.

There’s UK TT scene dudes on sub $1000 TT setups that could destroy me. Problem solvers and talented athletes.

For fast tri and TT it takes both. I feel problem solving is part of the sport. Taking that away to open up to more people? Sure, they’re also already having e-mtb racing also…vomits in mouth.

13

I will also add -

I used to be like you - ‘don’t buy speed, just train harder!’ and I did ok for myself on a legit Cevelo P2c with aero helmet. Usually a top 15-20% bike split in local and regional races.

Then I got the money last year to get the full aero setup - Premier Tactical with disc+88 wheels, latex tubes, Giro Aerohead, fast trisuit (Roka / Castelli) and aero hydration setups. My bike position didn’t change much - we mapped my old position to my new bike pretty much and it’s hard to go lower as I’m in-between sizes and don’t want 650c wheels for the smaller bike.

Contrary to my prior beliefs and what people say - it was an utter game-changer. First off, training with an awesome bike setup is FUN. Like so fun that you want to bike more and more, which makes you stronger and stronger. I’ve always enjoyed cycling, but when you’re rocking on the roads in Norcal and everyone is staring at your setup slack-jawed, or even giving you compliments at the stoplights (happens all the time, amazingly, here in Norcal), you just want to train more. Next - the aero benefits are real when you put it all together. My average speeds in Olys is 2.5mph faster than it was with my Cervelo P2c, and with only 20-30watts more power, which at 23-25mph, indicates much more of an aero contribution to speed than power. (Most calculators will say you will need 50-100+ watts to get 2mph at those speeds).

Seriously, if you’ve never tried going ‘all-aero’, you don’t know what you are missing, it’s that good!

What bike do you ride now?

You really think a P2C is slower?

14

I will also add -

I used to be like you - ‘don’t buy speed, just train harder!’ and I did ok for myself on a legit Cevelo P2c with aero helmet. Usually a top 15-20% bike split in local and regional races.

Then I got the money last year to get the full aero setup - Premier Tactical with disc+88 wheels, latex tubes, Giro Aerohead, fast trisuit (Roka / Castelli) and aero hydration setups. My bike position didn’t change much - we mapped my old position to my new bike pretty much and it’s hard to go lower as I’m in-between sizes and don’t want 650c wheels for the smaller bike.

Contrary to my prior beliefs and what people say - it was an utter game-changer. First off, training with an awesome bike setup is FUN. Like so fun that you want to bike more and more, which makes you stronger and stronger. I’ve always enjoyed cycling, but when you’re rocking on the roads in Norcal and everyone is staring at your setup slack-jawed, or even giving you compliments at the stoplights (happens all the time, amazingly, here in Norcal), you just want to train more. Next - the aero benefits are real when you put it all together. My average speeds in Olys is 2.5mph faster than it was with my Cervelo P2c, and with only 20-30watts more power, which at 23-25mph, indicates much more of an aero contribution to speed than power. (Most calculators will say you will need 50-100+ watts to get 2mph at those speeds).

Seriously, if you’ve never tried going ‘all-aero’, you don’t know what you are missing, it’s that good!

What bike do you ride now?

You really think a P2C is slower?

Premier Tactical.

I get your point though and do agree with it in that it’s almost certainly all the other non-frame stuff I upgraded that added a lot of extra speed, and for sure the frame and clean cabling was only a small portion of it.

Still, my point that having a new FAST bike can’t be understated - it’s by far the most fun I’ve had in tri! It’s to the point that I actually get sad if I have to ride my road bike on a long ride outdoors (happened when my TT bike was undergoing some maintenance).

I can get that same road bike with all the aero upgrades to go nearly as fast as my tt bike, but in that case, there still is a noticeable aero time penalty from the road bike brifters hanging in the wind etc.

15

On tannus tires?? Impressive.

Got a photo of your $200 rocketship? Would love to see it.

on the left. taking my work bike to the bike shop for drive train overhaul

You can carry that thought for as long as you’re beating someone with more expensive gear can’t you? If that makes you feel better. But what’s the point?

Stop trying to buy speed? Feeling bad for people being conned? People can actually buy speed you know, I do, that helps me place higher. If you fancy finishing slower than you could good for you. And if you say the result is the same then stop being a big fish in a small pond.

you missed the point I am making. People are trying to buy speed but not getting a proper fit, making them slower.

interesting that this video came out today in relation to my post

https://youtu.be/bIywCGuN4Cg

bike2bikeshop.jpg

16

After nearly 40 years of doing tris, I’m considering not replacing my 2000 Cervelo Eyre with another tri specific bike when the frame finally cracks, instead just continuing to race the local sprint tris I do these days on my road bike (probably without clip-on bars) like I did in my earliest tris.

A non-aero division would be a fun incentive for me to do that when the frame cracks, but my question is whether non-aero divisions would ever gain traction? I remember non-aero divisions at tris in the past, but they’ve never stuck. It seems the focus on equipment is so strong in tri these days that once a newbie does a couple of tris they are eager to start buying stuff to go faster.

17

Seems the only way to do this is make prize money only for this division. Every sport I see… the top racers go where the money is

18

you missed the point I am making. People are trying to buy speed but not getting a proper fit, making them slower.

This is why the cost thing to me is only half the factor. Being bothered to think is the other half.

New folks need that Merckx or roadie only stuff. Being new and not having that knowledge or experience means likely not able to tackle a tri bike.

Seasoned folks that only want to bash on pedals I don’t have much pity for not wanting to be bothered to think. Tri bike leg and TT racing is also a thinking sport, not just “Bruno mash shit harder, Bruno win more”. Or, as pointed out “Bruno buy more shit, Bruno win more” doesn’t work either.

Seasoned folks also should know where to look for things on a budget and how to setup a budget tri bike. Thus eliminating the “whoa is me make it all road bike” stuff.