Anyone else feel hopeless against tibial stress fractures/reactions

Triathlon Forum
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I had the same problem (post tib tendonitis/stress fracture). For most of the last 2 years I could only do 2 runs/week without pain. I had a gait analysis done and my PT suggested a few things for me: that I change cadence (90), doing 1-legged squats to improve knee stability, 1-legged squats on a balance pad/pillow (have to work up to this exercise by doing the balancing without squats at first), and finally change from heel-striking to mid/forefoot landing. The balance pad/pillow strengthens the muscles around your ankle. I think hiking on rough terrain does the same thing.

I started doing the exercises over the summer, but continued with the same running form to finish out the season. I took a month off and then started back to running and changed my form. I do the Evolution Running drills/style that were shown to me by my PT. I basically started over by only running as far/long as I could hold correct form. It really took effort to keep my runs at only 1 or 2 miles, but I think the REALLY slow build was worth it. Two months later I am freakin’ elated with my running. I have no pain and am running 5 days/week. I know this is just my case, but yours sounds similar. I imagine you’ll have to get your leg pretty healthy before starting to run. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

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Here is a Mass Reply:

ScottinPDX - This is very interesting. Would I need to see an endocrinologist for something like this. I know my mom has had to take thyroid medication. I have other things going on that could possibly result from thryoid condition…I may look into this.

JODI- No, I am not going to pay a ridiculous amout of money searching…just try to rule out one thing at a time and do the least expensive things first…I also have friends that work in labs who may be able to help me with testing if I decide to try.

IRONLOBO - Barefoot running always does seem easiest and really seems to not affect my shins, but everytime I do too many runs in the racing flats I have a problem. But I do notice that NEVER after a fast race do I feel pain, unless I was really injured coming in…so maybe running “fast” gives me better form?

MARISOL -PM

DAVE - Airplanes

Trianthes - Thanks for the advice, I sent Marisol a PM about some that stuff

Cowantb - Facebook message…but I do remember coming back from stress reactions, after a long time off I was so worried about it that I would get like a tingling “phantom” pain…usually it was nothing…but be careful stay on the grass if you can

CooterBob - Thanks. I have had others including Paulo tell me to stay away from newtons as well given my situation. I tried the Kayanos a long long time ago…It was right after my first stress fx and was having problems again, at the running shoe store, I also was trying the NB 991’s that day and a pair of brooks…I picked the one that made my shin “not hurt”…i did really well for a while in teh 991’s the rest of that spring and summer. So I have stuck with them since then (3 1/2 years) Before the 991’s, when I got the first stress fracture in 2003 I was running in Nike Kukini’s…basically like a slipper…and had been runing in them for a few years…although that was mainly in highs school when we rarely ran over 25 miles a week, so I was never injured then. Also I have been to that link quite a few times…probably saw it for the first time 3 years ago.

IRONLOBO- of course!!

tigerchick - f eel your pain as well…I do get a general lower leg ache sometimes (bone) that is not specific to one area…even right now when I run its more of a general ache…but to the touch its a specific spot…normal stress reaction, or it just starts to feel weird. I have went through IM training fighting off a stress reaction, like you have done, but never stress FX it except for once.

DEV - yea, my current aero setup is more like a roadie TT setup. I have always tried to pile on swim and bike yards when I can’t run, but right now I have a shoulder injury and can’t swim…so its just cycling…I can believe PNF had a good race of that training…I have had some really suprising run results off of 20-25 miles a week…some how at Bradenton 101 last year I ran a “decent” run off of not much more than 2 hours a week running for like the last 8 weeks before the race.

H20Fun - Hi :slight_smile:

Flozert - That was kinda what I was shooting for the last few weeks, I was using some of the cues from Chi running to change form. The main things were running more of a “tightrope”, keeping toes straight, more heel kick, less time on ground, a little bit of a whole body lean, landing midfoot under center of gravity,…not sure of those are some of the same cues you worked on? It definately does help with running speed…but not sure if its good for me to be landing midfoot like that or not? But it sounds like you are in the same boat as me. What shoes did you run in before and after switching to POSE? I probably did not get enough calcium as a kid…

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Bizach, if you live somewhere cold, then you also have “Classic Style” XC skiing (the version that looks like running…it will also work your upper body and will likely have minimal stress on the shoulders)…and as much as I hate to say it, but why not get a pair of Powercranks till you are over this…there is really no downside as you can continue to do your regular biking and try powercranks during what would be “run sessions”

Dev.

44

Yeah, I would try them again…but $$$$ ???

45

Dave, you won’t really be able to relate to wanting to train and win a big race…nor can I, but at a certain level, be it NFL, NHL, track, marathon running, soccer, or triathlon, pros in any sport are willing to risk, “not being able to walk” at 50 to win today…there are some sacrifices, that athletes, make, and most are pretty sure that they will be walking at 70 or 80…they are not thinking about walking later…they are thinking about winning NOW…so please don’t judge someone elses values based on your own. You and I and the fence post have not clue what it takes to win at the highest level in this sport, both physically and psychologically…I might have a better clue than you, but not much more. Let Bigzach follow his dreams today…when he hits 50, he might prioritize water skiing with his grandkids, but at this time, that is clearly not his top priority!!!

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Dev, I understand. But as we beat up Cathy for being a coach and TRYING to pass along mistakes she made, I will continue
to try and pass this experience along to others. Yep, I expect he will ignore it, but that is what a good “coach” is all about.
Make sure folks have all the data about pro and cons of certain behavior.

Dave

47

Dave, you are very right, there is a lot more in life than winning or getting a spot. There is many years of life after triathlon. But for some of us… getting a spot or going to world dosnt mean anything. To win a ironman or make a living out of this sport and keep traveling all around the world is our priority. In this angle, that s why stoping running isnt a possibility.

The way i like to see it, a injury is a hurddle that will spot many people but if you are really working over it and find a way to solve the problem, and keep going, you will be a lot stronger and ahead of many. But you dont reach the limits of performance without pushing your body and breaking some stuff on the way. IT s part of the game and some like me decide that it s worthy…

when i coach people, i sure do not take that approche… like you said, there is a lot to life…triathlon is only a small part…

48

Yep, but it depends on the injury. How many pros do you see that hang it up at the top, rather than the bottom?
How many do you see that wait too long? I guess the parent gets into me. If I see my kids doing something that might
have long term health and qualify of life impacts, I give them my experience. I know my youngest has had 2 knee operations
already at 21. She said she wanted to do the full marathon with me in Dec. Well, when we did the half, it was clear she
was not able to do it safely. So, guess what, we did not do the full. I told her blowing her knees out totally now
is dumb and to harness the energy and emotion into something that will not have long term impacts.

But, again, not trying to tell anyone what to do. But, when someone posts on ST asking for inputs, well, I assume
they are asking for all sides.

To me winning the IM means nothing. Takes too much away from what I believe is more important in life,
and that is family and children. But, we each need to reach for our dreams, just be smart in which
dream to pick, and when.

Dave

49

Slowtwitch is not about giving up…its about Flaming people who suggest we do give up
.

50

If the goal is to figure out why you’ve had this problem for all these years, you need to take part in whatever medical testing is necessary. There has got to be a reason for this: shoes,diet,terrain,massage,strength,hormonal,gait,etc. If it is this important to your life, $$$ can’t be an excuse not to try or seek an answer.

Triathlon is the most important thing in your life right now. Do whatever it takes to allow yourself to get passed this. I’m sure that your #1 sponsor, Ruble Trucking, would be more than happy to help you out.

51

Who suggests giving up? But, what I do not hear is you have gone to the expects in the medical community
during the last years to find root cause from the expects.

Did Bo Jackson give up?

Dave

52

Did Bo Jackson give up?

No, he didn’t. He just got somewhere between 6-9 revisions to his hip replacement.

53

Yes, he gave up doing what is was the best in the world at, football and baseball, since his future life was more
important. He found other things to put his energy and gifts towards rather than do things his body could
no longer handle. That is a true master when one knows when it is time to more on to the next big thing!!!
Some are lucky and do it old, some may not be and have to do it young.

Dave

54

He found other things to put his energy and gifts towards
You mean like guest starring on The Fresh Prince of Bel-Aire?

55

I think you are right on Dave. It is believed that most people seem to think you are a quitter if you stop doing a sport that has given you nothing but injuries. In reality, most people view it as doing the right thing (except those on ST of coarse). All you can do is give someone your view and sit back and watch. When the injuries just keep piling up then people start looking for sympathy and wonder what went wrong. Kind of the “I told you so” syndrome.

I am not necessarily saying this is the case with BigZach, and really hope that he figures out what the root of the problem is. I’m just saying I have seen and heard of this same thing more times than I care to remember.

Flame on!

56

Yep, we have both seen the same things in life.

As I read the thread about hip replacements, and the number of have posted that have them, well, I can see why
there are fewer and fewer folks who can do Tri’s, let alone run, as we get older. I sure am not complaining,
but I hate to see others only living in the moment, rather than knowing when to folk them as the song goes
from Kenny Rogers.

Dave

57

Have you actually been formally diagnosed as having stress fractures? I am assuming the pain is on the medial or inside of tibial, roughly 1/3rd the way up the bone. As you probably know that is where the posterior tibialis muscle tendon passes through, and soleus muscle runs along the tibia. The old “shin splint” diagnosis is now being called medial tibial stress syndrome (MTSS). It does not mean you have a stress fracture if you have pain there, even if it’s bad pain. More research is showing it’s usually the soleus muscle and the the post. tib. tendon causing the pain. Most of us are un godly tight in the soleus muscle and it can cause pain. I have had horrible MTSS in the past but was able to work through it and fortunately it has not come back. Yes it can be from shoes, running mechanics etc… but it can also just be from doing too much and being very, very tight. Avery simple approach would be to take some time off from running obviously, start doing heel(or calf raises) raises every day off the end of a step say maybe 2 sets of 20, it’s worth repeating every single day. Also stretch the crap out of your soleus every day several times a day, say maybe 5 times to start. Put your foot on a step or use like an 8" stool, slide the foot back so the ball of your foot is on the step, heel hanging off. Now that knee is bent. Bend over at the waist a little and put your hands over the knee and push down a little to provide some over pressure to the stretch. Hold 30-45 seconds and repeat 2-3 times. You really have to have that knee bent a good bit to get a good stretch on the soleus. Make sure your shoe is dry and the surface your on is not slippery. When you are done with runs head straight to the shower. Take your normal shower then turn the water to the coldest setting turn your back to it and let the stream hit your legs only, then turn around and put leg up on a ledge in the shower and let it get the front a little as well. 4-5 minutes is usually good. I have found this to be the easiest and most effective way to remove heat stress after a run. It sucks doing in the winter, but the added bonus is your tap water is colder in the winter. You will get used to it after a few times.

Ever find out what Tim Deboom did to get over his tibial issues last year? Might be worth researching.

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What you’re saying muscle-wise makes sense… and if that’s truly the problem, I think that Zach would find a lot of benefit from very regular use of the TPT stuff.

59

A lot of the collegiate runners I know that get repetitive stress fractures usually find it’s related to mileage/intensity in relation to diet/hormones. I know several coaches who have their runners do nothing but walk/run for a month after taking 6-8 weeks off. Also, little or no bike…mostly pool running. The people (me included) who rush back in order to race, etc. usually end up getting another stress fracture. A good rule of thumb is 6 months off for a stress fracture before resuming normal training levels. I know it sucks and is conservative, but from stories I’ve heard it’s the best way to go. Also, I’d get a professional opinion regarding diet in relation to your training load. You might also find you have low bone density, etc. BTW, If you need to heal quickly for a race, there are bone stims, etc. Good luck, I’ve had 3 stress fractures in my life all within 2 years, got my act together and haven’t had another since (knock on wood).

-Pete

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Hi BIGZACH,

Have you had a recent x-ray or bone scan?