Take my anecdotal advice with a grain of salt as I am not a doctor but I am currently being treated regularly by a team who works with MANY professional athletes.
I have been experiencing similar problems. Active Release Techniques therapy has really helped me but the one thing that my Doc pointed out that I hadn’t considered was my daily footwear.
While I need a neutral cushioning shoe when running, while standing around at work and doing my daily tasks my pronation is inflaming my injuries. What the Doc has suggested is that I wear at least a stability shoe when not training as well as wearing an orthotic to keep my arches from collapsing while standing. I’ve taken this advice and have since made great strides towards recovering and was able to run again this morning for the first time in weeks.
See a real PT who has a background in biomechanics. Get filmed and work on your form. Train in a neutral “supportive” shoe like Brooks Adrenaline. Try compression socks. Warm up more, especially when cold. Tape handwarmers to your tender spots when really cold. Cover your legs under 40F. Try ice baths post heavy workouts. Stretch more. Work on ankle flexibility. Try note to heel strike as much . . . POSE.
I went through a period last fall when starting running again where I was doing daily yoga and some major stretching prior and post run…didnt work.
The PT has her doctorate in Physical Therapy and is working on her doctorate of Biomechanics…the most knowledgable person I have met in the field.
Like I mentioned before I have been filmed…and captured in 3-D digitally so that the smallest biomechanical errors could be seen…nothing out of the ordinary was seen.
Cold weather is a variable that can easily be ruled out as I have had an equal occurance of this whether it be cold or warm, and over the last year it has been “warm” b/c I have moved from warm area to warm area…(endless summer…like I said earlier)
Also like I mentioned I was working on more of a pose method technique the last two weeks, while keeping my runs short and stayin on soft surfaces…and running first thing in the day to eliminate extra pounding that would be taken from an inability of fatigued muscles to help bear the load of impact. Maybe I really need to take some time and perfect the Pose Method…I tried changing my form a bit to get a feel though for more of a midfoot strike, and it seems to help at times, but at times it seemed to stress the affected area even more…like I said though I would probably need to take more time with the technique…but it just seems that I have far more problems with this than anyone else I have ever come across…outside of a few family members who have tried running and complain of shin pain, and my mom who has developed compartment syndrome…HMMMM maybe there is something genetic going on here!!!
Man, that is the pits. But, seems like if your goal is to still be able to race at my age, I would stop with the long stuff until
you find root cause. I know I had knee issues in my early 20’s and basically stopped all running and playing basketball.
I got into other sports like water skiing, that did not mess my legs up. When I decided to try and run again in my late 30’s,
and as you have seen my post, I keep the running to a minimum since if one can run decent at all at my age,
you can do well since so many blow their bodies apart when they are younger!!
So, I would just stop the running like I did if you do not want to be dealing with big issues down the road, IMO.
Now, have you considered going back to shorter stuff? And sorry to have to say this, but I still strongly believe
the Powercranks help with my running w/o having to do the pounding of real running.
A friend of mine was having repetitive tibial stress fractures and found out he had a thyroid condition. His doctor told him it could be related to the stress fractures. He hasn’t had a stress fracture since going on the thyroid medication over 4 years ago. He’s done a number of IM’s and marathons since. I have no idea what the connection is, but it’s worked for him.
Do you have insurance? A lot of the workup people are suggesting could get expensive fast. And if you really are getting stress fractures this frequently, a thorough examination of your hormone levels, calcium, thyroid and parathyroid function is warranted. I remember you saying you dropped your insurance awhile back. I highly suggest you get covered before you start getting tests done. Med bills are insane.
I know a few runners who were having lower leg problems of all kinds, These people were running pretty high milage (60-80mpw) and racing at shorter distances like 3,000m to 10,000m and both of them switched into racing flats for all of their training and both claim that this fixed their problems. I don’t know what studies could show this to be helpful but they seem to think that using flats and running barefoot on grass (a bit each week) has helped their bodies to adapt to a more “natural” gait which reduces injury. I know from personal experience that when training for marathons and running higher rmilage, I can get pretty beat up, switching into flats always seems to help me.
Again, I dont know what if any evidence exists to support this, but I know people who swear by it and it has helped me when I have dabbled in it. you might try talking to Jason Karp.
good idea…ill just stop running altogether and not try anything.
seriously though…its not a joint issue like the knees…so I am not “wearing anything out” like you do with the knees. And I do not run through pain (injury pain)…and I dont know that I have ever run over 60 miles in a week…so I think I am pretty good as far as longevity goes right now…not that it is my ultimate goal, but if I want to race at a later age I think ill be ok
Man, that is the pits. But, seems like if your goal is to still be able to race at my age, I would stop with the long stuff until
you find root cause. I know I had knee issues in my early 20’s and basically stopped all running and playing basketball.
I got into other sports like water skiing, that did not mess my legs up. When I decided to try and run again in my late 30’s,
and as you have seen my post, I keep the running to a minimum since if one can run decent at all at my age,
you can do well since so many blow their bodies apart when they are younger!!
So, I would just stop the running like I did if you do not want to be dealing with big issues down the road, IMO.
Now, have you considered going back to shorter stuff? And sorry to have to say this, but I still strongly believe
the Powercranks help with my running w/o having to do the pounding of real running.
Good luck.
Dave
i do think zach is actually trying to perform at a high level… i douth his goal are to be competitive in the 50 year old category but more, to be the overall winner of the big races…
I see a lot of that in my office. A lot of it tends to be training error but you have a good coach so… I found out a good article that was stating that stress reactions dont necessarily make you more prone to stress fractures. i am not sure I agree with that. I would have someone look at the mobility of your subtalar joint, flexibility and adhesions of tibialis posterior and flexor digitorium longus and even more importantly, up the chain in the hips. You gait is good, but doesnt mean that you have balance with the flexibility in muscles. Is this on both sides?
I help a lot of people with those with ART. Ask Dave… He gets that all the time, I’ll work on him, then good again. He would need more flexibility, core strenght and more important, maintenance treatments which may help you as you ramp up your mileage. Get those work as they break down. let me know if that helps… Did you get a bonescan? Ae you having pain with the hop test?
I would have someone look at the mobility of your subtalar joint, flexibility and adhesions of tibialis posterior and flexor digitorium longus and even more importantly, up the chain in the hips. You gait is good, but doesnt mean that you have balance with the flexibility in muscles.
Good advice. I was chastised above for giving a dumbed down version.
At lease once a month my PT clears me from the feet to the hips. I stated seeing my PT years ago due to IT band issues. She believes my disfunctions are usually driven by narrow hips that are internally rotated . . . causing me to externally rotate at the feet. If I am not vigilant about making sure my joints are not blocked I have issues. One of them was diagnosed as a tibia SF after a bone scan. I think it was a stress reaction, but I am not that kind of doctor; so what do I know : )
Thanks for posting this thread. I posted a similar thread last year but never got much response. A close friend of mine has been in exactly the same boat as you. She’d been a runner for about six years or so, pretty mellow runner though, marathon once a year but more mop than anything else. We started upping the training as she got more competitive in tris and she did the Kona Xterra double (and finished 2nd in her AG at Xterra!) and then took two months off before starting up training again. Lots of speedwork on the track and the road and next thing you know she has a tibial stress fracture down near the distal end of the tiba.
Three months off and she starts light running but the pain is back right away so she takes more time off. This cycle went on through the year with her swimming and doing very limited biking with no running. Even managed to race ITU age group worlds and do pretty well but the stress fractures just kept bugging her. Anyways, fast foward to now three years later and she’s now running again but on very suppressed mileage of maybe 25m per week and her shins are still sensitive. She just did pulled out a fast marathon (how I don’t know on that training) and although her shins aren’t killing her they are definitely tender.
Sounds pretty much like your scenario. She’s very light though, prob 105ish and 5’2". Pretty nuetral runner with no obvious biomechanical flaws. Takes calcium supplements as well as others. Doctors have no idea what to tell her at this point… After reading this thread though I think I’ll forward it to her as some new possibilities are popping up. Thanks!
Does anoyone get a tingling feeling in their shin before a stress fracture? I get these weird feelings in my shin, kinda like like when my foot falls asleep and then i stand up. I had a stress fracture and took 8 weeks off, started slow and tried to build up but it still wasn’t better so i took 6 more weeks off. I’ve been building slow for the past 2 months and only running 4 days a week but as soon as i got up to 5 miles i have this weird throbbing/tingling feeling in the spot where my stress fracture was. The thing that is deceiving is that it doesn’t hurt to touch or apply pressure but sometimes it will just start to ache when i am just sitting. It doesn’t hurt to run on as of now but I’m afraid that if i continue to run the stress fracture will come back. any thoughts or opinions?
Wow, it sounds like you have done everything right and are still having issues.
Unless you have some really unusual problem, bone density can’t be the issue and if it were, at your age, you would be cracking stuff everywhere. Bike set-up isn’t it either.
“HAVE NOT,
Tried Newtons, compression socks, have a good massuer that I see on a regular basis”
Stay away from Newtons based on everything you have written. Do get a good MT and some sort of inserts or see a podiatrist. This seems to be biomechanical. I find a good stability or motion control shoe without the right insert to be less than an optimal solution in many situations. I like Lyncos. Plus, for whatever it is worth, I think NB900’s are not the greatest shoe in the world because the heel is too narrow and they rock around as a result. If nothing else, try some Gel Kayano 11s - they are sold on RoadRunner as a classic shoe – they always have them.
And you are in Indiana so go figure out who the Pacer’s doctors are and go see them. I intentionally pick basketball doctors because the average NBA player does a 10K every game juking and jiving the entire way. My guys are the team doctors for the Mavericks. They changed my life about 5 years ago.
So there you have it – medical advice from a lawyer licensed to practice in 5 states and not a medical degree in sight. But, there is a lot of “voice of experience” in the above. Good luck.
Hopeless? I try not to feel hopeless. I’ve had five bone injuries since July 2005. I try to believe that if I don’t run too many miles, and if I don’t run on hard surfaces, and if I don’t run more than 2 days in a row, and if I get enough calcium, that I won’t get any more fractures.
The latest one was this September. It happened in a race. I’d only run 26 miles that week, race included - it was an Oly - and the only thing I can think of is that the run was on pavement, which I hadn’t run on in months. I don’t know as if I feel hopeless as much as scared that another one will just happen. Sometimes you start to feel pain before it cracks - last fall I ran on a stress reaction that was tender for months, and it finally broke - I know now what that feels like; I know now when to stop. It’s the thought of that crack before I feel anything else that scares me.
My fractures are in part a result of low bone density, I do not know if that is an issue for you or not.
google “Bone Support + Twin Labs” - not something I take but I have a friend who swears by it when he’s running high mileage.
Do your leg bones ever hurt when you run? Not like sfx pain, but aching… sometimes my tibias ache when I run. I’ve always wondered if it’s just my bone condition, or if others get that too.
Anyway, sorry to hear about your stress reaction - I empathize… lots of ((((((hugs))))).
Zach, since it is the off season, why not do lots of riding in the roadie position where there is less of an accute angle between the tibia and foot when you push down on the pedals, and if things permit run on snow in snowshoes (I think you live somewhere cold)…aside from that, I think the others know a lot more about this topic.
I think one year PNF went 9 hours flat in Kona having missed an entire summer of running and only running for ~2 weeks before kona…she just swam like a swimmer and biked like a bike pro in training.
Good luck and keep us informed on what did/did not work!
I just love it when on tries to give their experience, and gets attacked for it. But, what would ST
be w/o these kind of opinions.
My brother in law, who is upper 40’s, is going through the same type of thing. He has played basketball
his entire life and just loves it. Well, guess what, his has a knee that is shot. But, NO WAY is he going to
stop playing. I tell him he is nuts!! I guess when he can not walk w/o pain then maybe that will force him to stop.
All I can say is there is MORE to life than this stupid spot and being a “WINNER”. Maybe Jonnyo does not care what
his body can do at 50, but I assume most want to be able to walk in no pain, let alone run. I know my goal
is to be able to water ski with my grandkids.
So, whether it is luck or genitics or …, my experience has been there have been times to leave a sport I love and find
something else when I start getting hurt. I did that in basketball, I did that in water skiing, and I will do this in triathlon
if I start getting too many injuries. This is what life is about. Going and changing.
But, this is just my “coaching” experience and I know most folks do not listen to alternatives until it is too late.
Again, best of luck. The piece I am not hearing is you have been to all the doctors and have had all the correct tests.
I hope the comment that you have no medical insurance is not correct.
I’ve probably had 7-10 tibial stress fractures in both legs. I had a few in high school, and then all the rest when I started marathon training - I was very frustrated, and 2 years ago tried to teach myself POSE running. I dont know if I did a good job or what, but I have not had any problems since - period. I have trained for 2 IMs without a hint of shin pain. So I would say work on your form more than anything. The other thing my doc told me was that I probably screwed up by not getting enough calcium when I was little. I dont drink milk, and she said that taking calcium now really wont help, wont hurt either though. Did you get enough calcuim as a kiddo? Hope this helps - Zoe
I found out a good article that was stating that stress reactions dont necessarily make you more prone to stress fractures. i am not sure I agree with that. I would have someone look at the mobility of your subtalar joint, flexibility and adhesions of tibialis posterior and flexor digitorium longus and even more importantly, up the chain in the hips. You gait is good, but doesnt mean that you have balance with the flexibility in muscles. Is this on both sides?