Any 80/20 Training Experience?

Triathlon Forum
1

Any/many folks here do ****80/20 training for triathlon, either specifically the 80/20 book/plans by Warden and Fitzgerald, or the 80/20 Seiler training philosophy self coached or with a coach? Have you done the 80/20 training through an entire race season? Do you have experience with other training philosophies to compare it too?

2 years ago I did a TrainerRoad based plan (auto generated by their plan builder) for Ironman 70.3 Chattanooga and it went well. Definitely a lot of hard training. I wasn’t thinking about training limits so some of what I did was added on by me on top of the TR Plan. Last year was a disrupted season for so many of us, and as I began to reformulate a plan for 2021 in the late summer of 2020 I picked the 80/20 book off my shelf, revisited the key points, and began using their Maintenance Plan (they were giving it away for free on TrainingPeaks - and still are here) and it felt really good.

In earlier years when I was training and racing 9 marathons, my favorite days were my “recovery run” days. I had a workout to do, but the task at hand was to do “easy”, and only easy, having worked out hard for a day or two before. I loved being able to run easy knowing I had earned it by trained hard in recent days, and that I would once again be training hard the next day.

Then when I moved to triathlon, I spoke with one athlete who was very successful, and Kona qualifier multiple times, and I asked him, “when are the easy days?” His response was a bit crushing. He said “there aren’t any.” That was back in 2014 and for a few years I just trained moderate and hard every day, rotating through swim, bike and run, for Ironman 70.3 Boulder in 2015 and Ironman 70.3 Chattanooga in 2019, and a couple of Olympic tris.

80/20 brings me back to that joy of “earned easy days.” And having metrics to monitor and avoid overtraining seems crucial in triathlon because I have found my body can handle moderate and hard efforts rotated through swim, bike and run, but I’m convinced that’s not the optimal approach to avoid injury and be the fastest on race day.

I reached out to few pros on Instagram asking if they did at least 80% of their training volume at easy intensity. Every single one that replied basically replied “at least 80%” which is pretty strong validation for this approach at the pro level, and while I was a bit skeptical at first that the 80/20 distribution would apply both to a 20+ hr a week elite triathlete and a 9+ hr a week age grouper, but the science indicates it does, and my experience seems to confirm it. I am now 52 yrs old and I think being extra careful of my intensity distribution seems more critical than ever before.

I’d love to hear anyone else’s experiences with an 80/20 approach to tri training.

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I’m doing 120/20, and kicking the asses of those 80/20 fools.

E

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my n = 1 experience - it’s too early to tell, but… i think so.
i’m 53 - the biggest reason i’m concentrating very hard on at least 90% easy (prob more) is i recover so poorly from 85% + of thresh that i simply can’t do a targeted w/o of vo2 slightly above thresh. i’ve also cut back a bit on volume (kjs) cuz 10 hrs/wk ez is at least 1000 kjs less than kind of medium 10 hrs.

here is why i think it is ‘working’ - i am a cyclist. i havent run much in years. but i’'m running 3 hrs/wk now (also running much easier than i ever have). trying hard not to run faster than 9min/mile tops (dont ask my dog if this too slow - his opinion is moot). i also lift 2x/wk. both running and lifting used to leave a longer doms on me. now i’m a bit achey for about 24 hours tops (better than 2 days!). the running and weights (and enough sleep with in person teaching middle schoolers) don’t leave a lot of windows for fresh legs, but the 2x/wk i do vo2 intervals on the trainer are almost always doable. i could not have typed that the last few winters.

my recovery tends to get A LOT better as the weather warms and i cut back on weights (1x/wk). i expect i can push a little more thresh work and still do the vo2, but i’m in no hurry to add much more.

the younger me could still do a hard ride at 98% (or better) when tired at the start
the 53 year old me can’t do that
my test is can i recover enough from easy and some running and weights to do the hard work about 2 rides/wk?
if i try a hard ride and can’t complete it within a percent or 2 of my best (or as we approach Spring - even a little better) then i’ll go for even more easy.
i think the last tell will be do i get better all Spring. the old me would dig some holes with too much volume at too much intensity. we’ll see.

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yes, and it works very well with high volume.
if you are training 5 hours/week, it doesn’t matter - you can put in a lot more intensity.
if you are training 15-20 you have to limit the intensity time and your only way to keep building that aerobic fiteness is with endurance level efforts

5

yes, and it works very well with high volume.
if you are training 5 hours/week, it doesn’t matter - you can put in a lot more intensity.
if you are training 15-20 you have to limit the intensity time and your only way to keep building that aerobic fiteness is with endurance level efforts

Bingo. I think 80/20 is a proven winner - whether you use the plans from the books or not - but more effective the more hours you train. As you probably know, the authors even tell you how to make your own plan if you don’t like theirs!

I love the books, personally. My favorite is the workout library. I have used the maintenance plan and am going to use the Oly level 2 plan this spring, but for a duathlon (they say round up the running time to the nearest half hour and the plan is good to go as is).

6

short answer…

i used TR for the bike a while back. as stated a lot around here, too much intensity. to heck with that.

im an 80/20 endurance subscriber now. i cant say enough good about it. the only delta to their plans is i feel they are a bit lite on the run volume. i followed their plan to a T for the first plan i used and my run didnt progress at all, and actually regressed a bit. i add more Z1 and a wee bit of Z2 to their prescribed workouts now with good results.

80/20 endurance fits my needs pretty perfectly.

7

Just started using the 80/20 after a year of TR. Don’t miss TR at ALL. I’ll say it this way.

TR = can’t wait for my easy day of the week

80/20 = can’t wait for my hard workouts!!

8

if you are training 5 hours/week, it doesn’t matter - you can put in a lot more intensity.

If you listen to a bit of Stephen Seiler’s stuff, he (and by extension his data) suggests 80/20 being around the right mix for most improvements regardless of total volume. Given we are all aerobic athletes from Sprint to Ultraman this would make sense.

On another note …

I feel the 80/20 training is really just a brand that’s been attached to a methodology that most coaches use to some extent. Who doesn’t know a coach that uses a big chunk of low effort and a small chunk of higher effort. Whether coaches realize it or not they tend to fall into around that mix. trying to get the athletes to believe in it and follow that is the hard part.

Worth noting that he states that the 20% is not 20% of the volume done at over threshold. It is 20% of the workout time. So, if your workout is a threshold session, the whole workout is added, not just the actual physical interval time spent over threshold. Your actual threshold stuff might end up at 10% or so.

Seiler is featured on several podcasts, worth a listen. I think some people might be disappointed with the ‘do some work slowly, do some work hard’ mantra and the fact that he doesn’t share any sensational new ideas or magic workouts that double your FTP in a week. In today’s clicky-novelty-bookselling-niche-cult world … it seems to go against that social media grain a little.

9

Just started using the 80/20 after a year of TR. Don’t miss TR at ALL. I’ll say it this way.

TR = can’t wait for my easy day of the week

80/20 = can’t wait for my hard workouts!!

its funny… i never realized that i feel exactly the same way about my hard days until you put it down in black and white. well said. the 20% is enjoyable now, and i look forward it.

10

I feel the 80/20 training is really just a brand that’s been attached to a methodology that most coaches use to some extent. Who doesn’t know a coach that uses a big chunk of low effort and a small chunk of higher effort. Whether coaches realize it or not they tend to fall into around that mix. trying to get the athletes to believe in it and follow that is the hard part.

This. Another word for 80/20 is “Training.” It’s basic physiology. The exact percentages can shift depending on athlete, time of year, whether you are using pace, power or HR to define zones, but the concept of training “mostly easy, sometimes hard” is pretty basic.

11

I followed their online plan through a whole season. Continued to set overall race and individual split PRs throughout said season, culminating in a 70.3 and half marathon PR in the same race. It worked for me!