Anaerobic Threshold on the bike vs. the run

Does anyone have an idea as to how your bike AT relates to your run AT? I had my VO2 max tested on the bike , and I can easily keep my bike workouts under my bike AT, but it seems almost impossible to run under my bike AT unless I run at almost a 9 minute pace (yes, I’m slow… but not THAT slow). I was told that your run AT is higher than your bike AT. Is that true? How can you extrapolate one to the other?

a rough estimate is that your bike AT is about ten beats lower than your run AT. There are a lot of different factors that can skew that though. For example if you have a very strong competitive cycling background and a very weak running background the two numbers might be closer together.

I have been there and done that. I am going to wager that your problem is that you are an old has been/never was runner like me. When I started triathlon four years ago, I didn’t know how to swim at all, and I barely knew anything about biking. I came from a running background though, so I was certain that part of the puzzle would fall into place very quickly.

Three months later, swimming was my best event (go figure) followed by the bike. My running was a disaster. There was basically no running pace I could maintain without sending my HR up near 170.

I am now having great luck improving my running in the off season. I call it remedial running for has beens. The bottom line is that you have to work up to doing significant miles (40+ per week, 50 is better) at a low heart rate. If you keep your HR down (under 150 for me, but 145 would probably be better) you will find that you really are able to increase your mileage without getting hurt.

At first you might find that you are totally dog meat slow. I am talking walking part of the time, 10 to 11 or even 12 minute mile slow. Yes, your mother may pass you on her morning walk, but keep at it. In a couple of weeks you will find that you pace picks up rapidly for the same HR.

Prior to this winter I had been running at a base pace of 9:00 miles with a HR that quickly went to 160 and climbed steadily to 170 after a few miles. I spent more time hurt from running than running. My run workouts wiped me out. I had to cut the pace to 10:00+ miles to keep my heartrate down. Very embarrassing. After two to three months of this, I am now back to 9:00 miles with a HR under 150. I think I have quite a bit more improvement to make,

You will find that if you adhere to this program you will feel fantastic from the running. The young kids on this board will laugh at this approach. They can short cut this whole process because they have much better recovery ability. We don’t. I did a sub three hour marathon when I was a kid. If I can run 10:00+ minute miles for a while, so can you.

You really do need to chalk up a lot of miles this way. That means you probably won’t be able to do anything else during this period. The only way to fix your running is to run. Cross training doesn’t work. Stay off the bike and out of the pool. Just run slowly.

Good luck old timer.

In response to {The bottom line is that you have to work up to doing significant miles (40+ per week, 50 is better} by ajfranke.

50 miles per week for what distance? I’ve done 2 IM’s and maxed out at 30. I guess it depends what your goals are but 50 is pretty high in my book.

Congrats to your daughter. If you have never had children you would not know the feeling of seeing your child succeed . We all want our children to learn about hard work , setting goals, success and failure. Life’s hard and sports help prepare them

I have made serious progress focusing on my running in the off season. I was well over 40 miles per week for several weeks. That is a lot for me. I got my HR way down for a given pace. I was doing nothing but running during this time. At the pace I was running (dogmeat slow) 50 miles is still only about eight hours per week. I don’t think eight hours per week is a lot, even for an old guy like me.

Most people’s run AT is higher than their bike AT, but that depends on their fitness level and background in both sports. I would not use a rule of thumb but would test each sport. You might even test your bike AT again in a month or so as your fitness improves as you may increase it a bit.

You should be able to develop a conconi-style test on a treadmill at your gym. Peter Janssen’s Lactate Threshold Training book is a great place to start and explains a couple ways to predict your running (and biking) AT. Gym treadmills have calibration problems, but should still be accurate enough to estimate your AT.

-Marc

It’s pretty incredible what she can do. And the only training I let her do is swimming 9 months a year (I don’t want a burned-out 12-year-old). After the nationals in September, she raced in the Austin Triathletes Kids tri, she had just turned 8, and beat all the 8-year-old boys and girls, all the 9-year-old boys and girls, all the 10-year-old girls and was only beaten by four 10-year-old boys! Watching her pass one after another and with such grace actually brought a tear to my eyes. She’s the proverbial “freak of nature”… the natural athlete, because it all looks so effortless for her and is beautiful to watch. And she has a 97.8 gpa in school, too!

If you live in a small town, it may be easier than you think to get in the paper. I serve as part time reporter for one of our local papers, and whenever our club does a tri, running race, etc., I take a camera along, take a few pictures and then put a story in the sports section of the paper. I make it a competition among our club to give it local focus. That way I can make sure I get in the paper! Plus it allows me to play big time sportswriter until I get that job with SportsIllustrated, Triathlete, or some other major publication. So at your next race, take a photo, write a cutline and send it in. You may get published if it’s a small paper. Shameless self-promotion isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Actually earning a spot in the paper because you got on the podium – now that’s something I can’t help you with.

As far as running/cycling LT goes, my cycling LT is about 12-15 beats lower than running LT.

RP

I meant to say that my cycling LT is about 7 beats lower than my running LT. My cycling VO2 max is 12-15 beats lower than running VO2 max.

My run LT is about 8 beats higher than my bike LT. The easiest approximation I’ve heard is that run LT should be the HR you can maintain during a 10k to 10m race. For the bike, the HR you can maintain during a 40k time trial.

Congratulations on your daughters accomplishments.

My advice would be to test them - most likely the run LT (or AT) is about 7-10 beats higher; Here is how you test them:

Determining Bike Training Zones

**In biking **we want to know our heart rate training zones. To make this as easy as possible, we will use a standard 30 minute TT. From this TT we will be able to determine the correct training zones. I do advocate doing both an inside and outside LT tests.

** Bike test protocol for inside testing: **

The warm-up is 15 minutes of cycling, moving through the different gears, always keeping the cadence above 90 RPMS. Do a few short sprints to get your heart rate up and ready for the test!

You should start out in a gear that you can maintain 90 RPMS in. Make sure you remember what gear you started in. **The 30 minute TT begins. ** **At 10 minutes into the test, hit the ‘Lap’ button on your heart rate monitor, to get the average heart rate over the final 20 minutes of the test. ** The average for the final 20 minutes is your Lactate Threshold or LT. You should finish knowing you gave it everything you had.

15 minutes easy cool down.

** Example: **

Johnny has an average of 156 heart rate for his 30 minute bike TT. If I calculate Johnny’s zones using his LT and the Training Bible zones, this is what I come up with:

Zone 1 - 102-125
Zone 2 - 136-139
Zone 3 - 140-145
Zone 4 - 146- 155
Zone 5a - 156-159
Zone 5b - 160-164
Zone 5c - 165-170

Determining Run Training Zones

**In running **we want to know our heart rate training zones as well. To make this as easy as possible, we will use a standard 30 minute TT. From this TT we will be able to determine the correct training zones. This is best if done on a flat uninterrupted path or trail.

**Run test protocol: **

After a 15 minute warm-up of easy running, finish with a few quick 20 seconds bursts to get your heart rate in the correct training zone. The 30 minute TT begins. **At 10 minutes into the test, hit the ‘Lap’ button on your heart rate monitor, to get the average heart rate over the final 20 minutes of the test. ** The average for the final 20 minutes is your Lactate Threshold or LT. You should finish knowing you gave it everything you had.

15 minutes easy cool down.

**Example: **

Johnny has an average of 156 heart rate for his 30 minute run TT. If I calculate Johnny’s zones using his LT and the Training Bible zones, this is what I come up with:

Zone 1 - 102-125
Zone 2 - 136-139
Zone 3 - 140-145
Zone 4 - 146- 155
Zone 5a - 156-159
Zone 5b - 160-164
Zone 5c - 165-170

I hope this helps!

Mike Ricci

www.d3multisport.com

In response to {The bottom line is that you have to work up to doing significant miles (40+ per week, 50 is better} by ajfranke.

50 miles per week for what distance? I’ve done 2 IM’s and maxed out at 30. I guess it depends what your goals are but 50 is pretty high in my book.

I think what Art is saying is that when not in full-bore tri training, increasing the run mileage will bring those improvements. I did the same thing this fall. No swimming at all, one easy bike ride a week. But, I did 6-7 runs per week for up to 50 miles. 95% of it very slow and easy; the only variation being “strides” once a week and drills once a week. It brought me a nice breakthrough and was easy on my body due to the easy pace. Now that I’m back to tri training, my mileage is back down to 25-30 a week. Three slow and easy runs (9:00 to 9:30) and one medium-hard tempo run (7:45 to 8:00). I drop the tempo run at the slightest discomfort.

I think that it is really hard to improve one’s run during in-season training. Swim and bike can be done hard and often, with big mileage/yardage during the season. But running just can’t. I think you have to look to the fall as “running camp” if you want to have a running breakthrough, and then carry that base through the season. At least that was my experience.

This geezer can relate…