I had never heard of this stuff until my wife bought it on the advise of a friend from Amazon. Now I see it popping up as an ad on this site.
Looking at the usage suggestions and active ingredient it looks like it is nothing but Icy-hot in a different base to be used during exercise instead of after.
Has anyone tried this stuff and does it actually do anything, or is this a modern version of Hamilton’s Wizard Oil?
Yes, it is pretty cool. It is nothing like Icy Hot. The gist is that they developed a base that absorbs through your skin and counteracts lactic acid. Think of it like mixing hydrochloric with sodium hydroxide-- that produces salt water. What you feel during very hard workouts is that your legs burn a lot less.
Its not the same as icy hot. I don’t think icy hot contains sodium bicarbonate.
Ive been using it occasionally for about 2-3 years. I tend to use it before races or extremely hard workouts. Occasionally I use it after a hard workout for recovery.
I find it delays how soon my muscles start to feel the burn so I can maintain higher intensities for longer. Its possible its mostly mental, but I feel it does make a difference in my performance.
Bicarbonate buffering happens constantly in your body. It works by combined a hydrogen (Acid) Ion with a Bicarbonate Ion to ultimately create a molecule of water and a molecule of carbdon dioxide
H+(Hydrogen Ion / acid) + HCO3 (Bicarbonate ion) ↔ H2CO3 ↔ H20 + CO2
There are positive performance effects from ingesting Sodium Bicarbonate during high-intensity activity.
https://journals.humankinetics.com/...m/3/1/article-p2.xml
There is also the unfortunate side-effect of horrible diarrhea when consuming dissolved in water.
Capsules typically fare better.
So, the theory is sound.
AMP is (which, I believe, was formerly called “Topical Edge”) touting a means of delivering the bicarbonate through the skin rather than through ingestion, which would solve many of the issues associated with “Bicarbonate Loading”.
As is often the case with interventions like this, there may be “physiological” changes without performance changes.
https://journals.lww.com/...Randomized.1967.aspx
E.g. lactate was higher (which would you expect with a buffer), but there was no change in performance. Often companies will say “See! It does something… therefore it Works”. When really the interpretation ought to be: it did not improve performance, and we cannot conclude if the minor phyisological changes are beneficial at this time.
Ultimately, it is hard to say if this works or not. There is not a lot of robust research. It is unlikely to cause harm, assuming there is no allergic reaction. Therefore my general advice in these situations (unclear performance benefits that are unlikely to do harm): if you can easily afford it then try it and find out for yourself. If this stretches your budget or has other negative consequences then you can likely pass without missing significant performance gains.
I’ve used it. I’ve had good races and bad races while using it. Hard to say if they would have been better or worse with or without it’s use.
(Apologies to exxxviii, I should have chosen the OP when I replied.)
I was using it before VO2 intervals on the bike in the winter and spring when it looked like there was going to be a triathlon season. I’ve never had such high numbers. While I’d like to think it’s because I was super-fit, I have a feeling the product helped a bit. I’d definitely recommend giving it a try.
I’ve used it several times before and after big bricks (3hr bike + 1hr run) and it seems like my muscles don’t get as sore and they recover more quickly. Even though I’d tried it with positive results several times, I thought that it might be placebo effect so I had my skeptical wife try it to see if I was just fooling myself. After using it the first time, the next day she bought two tubes of it. Bottom line: Yeah, I think it works for big workouts/races.
There is an episode on the Flo podcast with one of the Amp guys. Worth listening to…I bought a bunch of it and like it so far.
Another happy user here as well.
Not raced with it yet but use it before hard runs and rides and agree it seems to benefit but hard to know definitively.
It is not expensive relative to what we pay in this sport.
Not sure how well it will work in a race with a swim beforehand? Anyone have experience on that front?
Not sure how well it will work in a race with a swim beforehand? Anyone have experience on that front?
Its supposed to gets absorbed through the skin relatively quickly so as long as you apply it long enough before your swim It should work fine.
I have used it at a few swim meets. At Maters long course nationals I could feel it working during my 100 breaststroke. I could feel my forearms starting to fatigue and feel heavy towards the end of the swim but the burn from the lactic acid wasn’t as intense as it normally would be,
I’ve used AMP about a dozen times for run intervals and have to say that I didn’t like the way my legs felt on those days. I can only describe it as having dead legs. That feeling didn’t negatively affect the times I was able to run, I just felt like I was working harder than normal. I’ve followed the directions for application timing, but haven’t felt what other here are describing. Maybe it is mental and I’m just expecting too much.
This was on the old formula though.The new formula came became available literally the day I received my tubes! Not sure if that matters.
I had never heard of this stuff until my wife bought it on the advise of a friend from Amazon. Now I see it popping up as an ad on this site.
Looking at the usage suggestions and active ingredient it looks like it is nothing but Icy-hot in a different base to be used during exercise instead of after.
Has anyone tried this stuff and does it actually do anything, or is this a modern version of Hamilton’s Wizard Oil?
Some good replies already. I will only add that the risk of trying it is low, but the benefit is not fully established. FWIW, in these types of situation I would try it for a few key workouts to rule-out any unforeseen side-effects and try to quantify some benefit…then
If things appear good, save it for race day unless some meaningful support for using it to make your training sessions and/or recovery improve end goal: Outcome would need to be translated to better race performance.
For me, lactic acid is my friend and I want to push its utilization as a buffer to the limit via a natural process (training without aid). If I then can use a compliant and effective agent, such as AMP Human to assist buffering, I have potentially maximized the overall effect (use race day).
IMO (Take home message), in this case it is subtle, as I do believe the evidence for impact (single use) is compelling. However, I do not see any evidence to use it routinely in training, save some immediate gratification, will push a new performance limit. Point being I would want to understand that routine/frequent use does not start to negate some effect by limiting “natural” buffering (remember lactate is my friend!) thus reducing or washing out the overall bang for the buck.
I have used it for a few marathons and have nothing negative to say about it and thought it did help with recovery. I am not ready to use it in training, however, I admit I am likely an outlier in terms of critical review of the value proposition of using this type of supplement routinely so YMMV. Perhaps the answer is more on the recovery aspect of its impact versus performance benefit …allowing an increase training volume/stimulus, but again I would be just hypothesizing at this point…
My current take: use it race day after testing it in training
Cheers!
I’m quite curious about this stuff, but it seems like you’re supposed to use a lot per race/training. Can anyone indicate how much they use and how long one bottle lasts?
I’m quite curious about this stuff, but it seems like you’re supposed to use a lot per race/training. Can anyone indicate how much they use and how long one bottle lasts?
I have a couple of bottles and don’t feel like you use that much with each application. I use it mainly for hard indoor zwift workouts and the odd hard run, so probably 2-3 times a week max and still feel I have a decent amount left in the bottles. I just use it on my quads mainly so that maybe why there is so much left LOL…!
Dylan did a good Vlog on this stuff. Check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3vbpNdtce4
Here is an interview we did with Jeff Byers, head honcho over at AMP Human. His athletic background - an offensive lineman at USC during their glory years and a NFL career - is one we don’t see everyday in our endurance sports world.
I had never heard of this stuff …
Lance has been pimping it out on his podcasts for a year or two now
Make of that what you will
.
I bought a few bottles on a whim, but was very skeptical even after listening to the Flo podcast
Have to say I’m a fan now. It’s always hard to delineate the real effects from the psychological ones, but I do think it makes a difference in how long I can sustain a really hard effort.
Lance has been pimping it out on his podcasts for a year or two now
His venture capital company (NEXT Ventures) is the majority owner of AMP Human. That’s why. I’m disappointed the Slowtwitch article doesn’t at least mention this.
I was disappointed when USACycling made AMP an “official partner.” Using the advertising power of USACycling to enrich Lance seems to violate at least the spirit of the ban. (though I don’t want to get this thread sidetracked into a Lance thread)
If anyone wants to try sodium bicarbonate loading at a cost a couple of magnitudes cheaper, and in the form used in most studies that showed a benefit, just go to Amazon. The risk is stomach upset.
I’m not particularly impressed by the studies. Looks like it might be a marginal benefit for a madison or criterium racer, who has to repeatedly dip into maximal efforts. No benefit I can see for a triathlete or pure endurance athlete, other than possibly reducing DOMS. Which it’s unclear what long-term benefit reducing DOMS has, and also DOMS is pretty rare (in my experience) for well trained athletes.
Lance has been pimping it out on his podcasts for a year or two now
His venture capital company (NEXT Ventures) is the majority owner of AMP Human. That’s why. I’m disappointed the Slowtwitch article doesn’t at least mention this.
I was disappointed when USACycling made AMP an “official partner.” Using the advertising power of USACycling to enrich Lance seems to violate at least the spirit of the ban. (though I don’t want to get this thread sidetracked into a Lance thread)
If anyone wants to try sodium bicarbonate loading at a cost a couple of magnitudes cheaper, and in the form used in most studies that showed a benefit, just go to Amazon. The risk is stomach upset.
I’m not particularly impressed by the studies. Looks like it might be a marginal benefit for a madison or criterium racer, who has to repeatedly dip into maximal efforts. No benefit I can see for a triathlete or pure endurance athlete, other than possibly reducing DOMS. Which it’s unclear what long-term benefit reducing DOMS has, and also DOMS is pretty rare (in my experience) for well trained athletes.
It works bro
It works bro
Is that you, Lance? 
Not much evidence it does a whole lot, other than testimonial. Even the study that AMP sponsored out of SDSU (Dr. Ken Kern) showed no direct performance benefit.
From the study, Double-blind, Placebo Controlled, Randomized Crossover Pilot Study Evaluating The Impacts Of Sodium Bicarbonate in a Transdermal Delivery System on Physiological Parameters and Exercise Performance, the conclusion on a direct performance benefit was ,“Significance was not reached when examining performance differences (p>0.05).”
That’s why AMP’s claims are mostly secondary things like reducing DOM, decreasing RPE, etc.
The one “study” AMP shows that showed a direct benefit was performed not by a university, but by Source Endurance. A coaching service. A coaching service involved in helping promote AMP.