Back in the beginning of September, I took a spill from my bike during a race. It was NOT a USAT sanctioned race, but a large local race that has been put on for many years.
Anyway, the ambulance which was 500 yards away from me at the time of the fall (pretty convenient huh?) drove up the road to me and put me on a stretcher. They thought I had maybe broken my ankle or my hip and I had severe road rash down most of the left side of my body. At that point I did the smart thing and refused to go to the hospital. There were a bunch of reasons for that decision but they aren’t really relevant. So, the ambulance took me on the stretcher with my bike back to the transition area which was about 2 miles away. They made me sign a release, dumped some distilled water on my wounds, and taped some bandages on me. Basically, they had no idea what to do for the road rash and told me to get to the hospital.
Once back at transition area, the race director said he would help me find a volunteer to get my stuff back to my vehicle. Well guess what, after 20 minutes of bleeding all over the pavement and listening to everybody walk by saying “ouch” or “that sucks”, I hobbled into transition, grabbed all my own shit, and made the torturous walk back to my truck and headed home. I have never heard from anyone from the race at all to find out if I was ok or if I died or whatever…
But, here’s the kicker… last night in the mail I received a letter from the ambulance company and a release to sign so that they can bill my health insurance company for their services!!! I was appalled, but rather than fly off the handle, I am going to calm down and then write a letter back to them. As I see it there are several issues: 1) They are a volunteer ambulance company funded by tax dollars and charitable contributions, so they have no right to bill me or my insurance company; 2) They really provided no service other than a cab ride and three gauze pads; 3) Shouldn’t they be billing the race’s insurance company since that was what part of my fee went towards?
I’m sure some of you can provide insight on these and other issues. Please let me know if you think I’m way off base with my anger towards this situation. And before anybody flames me about supporting local safety volunteers, please note that I GENEROUSLY support my local volunteer fire and ambulance companies every single year.
My rule of thumb: if you don’t feel using the services of an ambulance and its crew is necessary, do not, under any circumstances allow them to touch you or get into their “rig” unless ordered to do so by the police.
They will bill the snot out of you. I was “forced” to take an ambulance to the hospital for some slashed up hands and arms after I had controlled the bleeding and when I had a friend who was ready to drive me. That four mile taxi ride (no sirens or rush whatsoever) cost me over $300. I just sat in the back of the truck and chatted with an EMT the whole way. I can assure you, the conversation was not worth the money. I’ve been an ambulance passenger three times. Once it was necessary, once was absurd (see above), and once I was ordered to by The Man under threat of arrest.
Make no mistake. It is a business and the companies are out to make money. Yes, they can do great things in an emergency, but when things are slow they need to make their money somehow.
Your tax dollars only pay part of their budget. The way it breaks down is that taxes fund maintaining a department, and getting the ambulance out to any call. Once you accept treatment, you are on your own dime. Maintiaining EMS services isn’t cheap, which is why your 4 mile “taxi” ride (as you call it) was 300$.
Like it or not, both of you received medical treatment, on your consent, and you should pay for the services you received. That is why you have health insurance right??? As far as race insurance, I think that is only liability insurance, not really medical coverage for each participant, but I could be wrong.
Can you please explain under what circumstances the police can make you get in an ambulance? As a member of my company’s ERT (emergency response team) I’ve always been taught that if the patient is conscious we cannot, under any circumstance, force them to accept treatment or get in an ambulance if they refuse- even if they have arterial bleeding or have just had a heart attack. We ask them to sign a waiver, but they can even refuse that, in which case we have another witness sign and attest to the fact that we read them the waiver and informed them of their rights.
But, here’s the kicker… last night in the mail I received a letter from the ambulance company and a release to sign so that they can bill my health insurance company for their services!!! I was appalled, but rather than fly off the handle, I am going to calm down and then write a letter back to them. As I see it there are several issues: 1) They are a volunteer ambulance company funded by tax dollars and charitable contributions, so they have no right to bill me or my insurance company; 2) They really provided no service other than a cab ride and three gauze pads; 3) Shouldn’t they be billing the race’s insurance company since that was what part of my fee went towards?
Andy,
Sorry, I guess I don't get your question.......why wouldn't they bill you? They are actually doing you a favor to ask for your health insurance to file rather than making you pay and then handle all of that yourself. Like it or not, you did use their service and you owe for it. So, what is your question with that? Now, yes they are are expense, but so is their equipment, etc.
Anyway, sorry for your wreck, and best wishes to you.
As far as I know, the police can only legally make you get in an ambulance if they put you on a medical/psychiatric hold - here its called a 5150. They could do this if they deemed you a danger to yourself (suicidal), a danger to others, or incabable of taking care of yourself (think bad alzheimers or something). Now they can be creative and give you choices: go to the hospital in the ambulance or go to jail in a police car…you pick.
An ambulance is a big deal to me. I would not get in one unless I was seriously concerned about my health. if I did accept any services from them, I would expect to pay for them.
Sorry about the crash. Hope you are recovering well.
Did you read my post? They wouldn’t bill me because 1)they are funded with taxpayer dollars 2)they did virtually nothing 3)i was under the impression since they were there as part of the race i.e. parked at a course turn that they were there as part of the services i receive for paying my race entry fee. They did not walk up to me and say “hi, this two mile ride, eight ounces of distilled water, and 3 bandaids are going to cost you and your insurance company $300. can we help you?” Pooks was right on with his comments. On top of the thousands and thousands of dollars I pay in state and local taxes and the hundreds and hundreds of dollars I have given directly to my local ambulance and fire crews, then I get billed for “using” the service. Rhetorical question, why should I give charitably if I’m going to pay as I go anyway?
Doing me a favor by billing my insurance company!?!?! Dude, get real. Obviously you don’t pay for your own health insurance. It is that mentality that causes the freakin rates to be sky high. Ask Tom D.
I guess you are right though. I do owe them for the ride and the bandaids. That should amount to, what, $10 max? I’ll let everyone know what the bill is.
Thanks for the well wishes. It took a couple of weeks to heal up but all is ok.
I believe the race directors insurance policy will only cover a medical bill if the participant does not have insurance or is under insured. Then I believe there is a cap of something like $10,000. I think that is for the USAT policy so your RD’s insurance may be different.
So the first place they will bill is your insurance company.
How much was the bill $$$? My wife and I just had Girl #3 and the bill for the birth and three days in the hospital was over $18,000. I have to pay $600. ($200 copay per day)
Did you read my post? …Obviously you don’t pay for your own health insurance. It is that mentality that causes the freakin rates to be sky high.
Yes, I read it very well. And, yes, I do pay for my health insurance and that of all my employees, in full.
They responded, and you let them respond, to an emergency situation…that’s what they do and they charge for it. Tax supported or not (I don’t know the particulars of their finances) they still charge for their services - they have to. Maybe you should “Dude, get real.”(sorry for the sarcasm) One of the items that makes the rates that you speak of go sky high is people that use the services don’t take the responsibility of paying and complain about paying. Maybe they were a bit too “convenient” for you, true, and you really didn’t need it; but, every EMS I have ever dealt with has a minimum fee (and most that I have seen are over $300) and that’s the way it is. On the other hand what if you did have something broken - that is the part of the service they provided you.
Maybe you should “Dude, get real.”(sorry for the sarcasm) <<
Amen David.
Welcome to the real world Andy. Did you honestly think race entry covered medical assistance? If you go back and read the wavier you signed, you will most likely find a section in it about medical costs (under which the ambulance would fall).
BTW–you got off cheap. My ambulance ride after my car accident cost $625, covered by my uninsured motorist policy.
David, I appreciate your response. We won’t see eye to eye on this and that is ok. Hopefully your comment about taking responsibility was a general one and not directed towards me since you know very little about me. I AM complaining, NOT neglecting. I do believe it is fair for me or anyone else to debate a bill that they don’t agree with. I agree with you that neglecting responsibility causes rates to rise, but a larger cause to the rise in rates is the frequency with which people go to the doctor/hospital. I pay for quite a few family’s health insurance and am surprised by the frequency of usage. Wasn’t anyone else under the impression that the medical volunteers ON-SITE were a part of the service for which you pay a race fee? If I owe the money, I’ll pay it. But I’ll argue it on principle. That is one reason I brought it up here… dude.
“Wasn’t anyone else under the impression that the medical volunteers ON-SITE were a part of the service for which you pay a race fee?”
Andy,
I would think that your race entry is paying for the medical crew, but most likely it is only to pay for them to be there and available. Otherwise they would be out on other medical calls.
Sorry, David is right. You took the ride. You owe the bill. I made this mistake maybe 20 years ago. The solution is very simple. Don’t get in the ambulance. Next time you know.
I am guessing the bill is around $300 bucks. Consider yourself older and wiser.
The difference between my incident and yours was that I did not request their assistance and did in fact refuse treatment. They insisted on at least giving me a ride back to my car (the one emt was a grandma who said I reminded her of her son - really nice and fussed over me and stuff). They were not dispatched to the scene. I fell right in front of them basically. Honestly, I did feel that an ambulance ride/transport to hospital was part of the race entry fee. I do realize that all the hospital bills/surgery etc. would not be covered… Who takes the health insurance cards for the IV’s given after an IM?
Thankfully most of my racing took place in Canada, where, I could rest assured that I would be transported directly to the nearest hospital, no questions asked or bills submitted, if the same misfortune had ever happened to me.
"Thankfully most of my racing took place in Canada, where, I could rest assured that I would be transported directly to the nearest hospital, no questions asked or bills submitted, if the same misfortune had ever happened to me. "
Glad you pointed that out Fleck. Our government health care system, despite it’s flaws, is one thing very few of us Canuks would be prepared to give up. It’s our “motherhood and apple pie” issue. Sure we pay a bit more income tax for it, but it’s money well spent. If a US style private health care system ever came to Canada, I’ll move elsewhere.