Alternatives to Saucony Kinvara's?

Anyone transitioned away from Kinvara’s? I’m 165lbs, running 50-60m /week on mixed terrain in northern hemisphere winter, slight supinator on one foot only when form goes.
Getting only around 350miles out of them until the mid-foot area starts to compress & deteriorate too much - just gotten a slight metatarsal strain behind big-toe joint, worrying…

So looking at options - thought about sticking with Kinvara’s but buy 2 new pairs & rotate but thats the expensive route or switch to a harder wearing everyday lightweight trainer such as the Sky-Speed or speedstar; although I am concerned about the stiffness of the midsole on the Sky Speeds and 10mm+ heel to toe drop having come off 4mm Kinvara’s.

Considering that I’m a mid-footer, not a fly-weight,run on hard-pack & roads + the info above, can anyone recommend something in that slot?

Thanks!
Dave

Wow, I’m in the same boat. But I started getting pain on the right side of my right foot, just under the pinky toe.

I’m staying with Kinvara until Zoot makes me a duplicate pair of shoes but are sockless.

youre lucky to get 350miles out of them, or any shoe really.

the asics speedstar, brooks launch, and mizuno precision are much better shoes.

Try the Brooks Launch. They are not entirely analogous, but are Brooks’ current effort toward the same demographic. The Brooks have just a bit more heel-toe drop. I have been through two pairs now and like them as much as the Kinvaras. They felt a little too cushioned at first, but they were just as fast and responsive in practice. And I get a lot more miles out of them. Maybe 150-200 more.

(disclosure: I am a Brooks ID program runner, but purchased all of the shoes involved, including the Kinvaras I got just before being named to the Brooks program.)

Similar situation. Loved my Kinvaras, but they wore too quickly. Now rotate between Asics Speedstar and Kinvaras. I really like the Speedstar.

I really like the Launches as well but just a warning that they are not shoes to be run in with out socks if that is your thing. I forgot my socks one day at the gym and found out that there is exposed stitching on the inside, right where my pinky toes are. I only made it 4 miles before I had a nasty blister one each toe…

Thanks guys - I’ll check out the Brooks & the Speedstars but can’t see any of the latter in the UK at the moment; thinking I’d rather keep as low heel-toe as possible.
It may be, given my weight/ technique, that the Kinvara’s are my sub-2 hr / tempo type shoe and then something more supportive for over say 16 miles. Hopefully come race time I’ll be down 10lbs, should extend the distance in a ‘minimal’ shoe.

I know this sounds funny, but honestly, just stay with the Kinvaras. I mean, yeah they DO wear quickly… but I’m able to find the shoes for just under $60, and even if they wear twice as fast as any other shoe, that’s still “only” $120 for two pairs. I say “only”, because half the shoes out there seem to cost that much for a single pair these days.

I love the Kinvaras, and mine are wearing like crazy, and I’m pretty sure they’ll die by 200 miles for me… and I’ll still be replacing them with another pair.

The Kinvara is not minimal, contrary to Saucony’s marketing of the category. The Kinvara is supposed to be your everyday shoe, whereas the either the Hattori or A4 would be your “minimal” option. Eventually, the Cortana could be your option for longer training and then the Kinvara for racing only; however, the Cortana will also come in at $140. Not exactly cheap by any stretch of the imagination.

At any rate, I would definitely suggest trying to track down the Launch, if you are looking for something slightly more durable within the category. For that matter, so would the New Balance MF801. Alternatively, you could also wait until March, when the New Balance Road Minimus will hit stores. The foam that New Balance uses is more compression-resistant than that implemented by Saucony. Just also be aware that this will make for a bit of a firmer ride by comparison. Also take note that the acceptable range of footwear life, at least from industry terms and APMA, is between 300-500 miles. 350-400 is right where I would expect the Kinvara to bite the dust.

x whatever for Brooks Launch. Best running shoe I have ever used.

I am also going to throw in for the Launch (although I do like the Speedstars, and they have been my primary shoe for awhile…until the Launch). Without a doubt one of the best–if not THE best–shoe I’ve run in in the last 25 years. LOVE them.

Thanks again ‘panel’ ! :slight_smile:
I have the Launch on order & also another pair of Kinvara’s (mainly to compare wear rate from new to 6wks x 50mile, so may end up sending them back, especially if I really suit the Brooks).
Asics UK confirmed that the speedstar 5 is not on the books for UK in 2011 at all, seems odd?

Sat here in a pair of brand new SkySpeeds - man are they stiff! As a mid-footer I think I need more suppleness to allow the old plantar fascia to do its job…

Newton Trainers?

Could check out the Brooks Green Silence too. Weight is pretty close to the Kinvara and still has some decent cushioning. That was my shoe of choice before finding the Kinvaras.

The Kinvara is not minimal, contrary to Saucony’s marketing of the category. The Kinvara is supposed to be your everyday shoe, whereas the either the Hattori or A4 would be your “minimal” option. Eventually, the Cortana could be your option for longer training and then the Kinvara for racing only; however, the Cortana will also come in at $140. Not exactly cheap by any stretch of the imagination.

At any rate, I would definitely suggest trying to track down the Launch, if you are looking for something slightly more durable within the category. For that matter, so would the New Balance MF801. Alternatively, you could also wait until March, when the New Balance Road Minimus will hit stores. The foam that New Balance uses is more compression-resistant than that implemented by Saucony. Just also be aware that this will make for a bit of a firmer ride by comparison. Also take note that the acceptable range of footwear life, at least from industry terms and APMA, is between 300-500 miles. 350-400 is right where I would expect the Kinvara to bite the dust.

Any thoughts on Jordan’s opinion in an earlier thread (in reference to himself) that a lower sole promotes biomechanical stability - given that I may have an issue with the Kinvara (checked, 250miles of use) on one foot only & couple that with my lack of overall stability - I’m thinking that the ‘natural’ shoe class (Kinvara, Launch etc) may not be helping. Also, if I’m getting away with wearing the Kinvara’s (to a point; wear or distance related) then a shoe like the Asics Gel Tarther may work?
Sure, the Tarther is built around a racing sole & has a 10mm drop instead of 4, it doesn’t sound as though its anyway near the cushioned & natural feel of the K’s.
I guess it could be just trial & error + I’m in that mode it seems! Any experience of the Tarther and opinion on the sole stack theory?
Thanks!

Lower midsole heights bear little to no relationship to overall biomechanical stability. The difference, however, lies with the instability of the shoe platform itself. The softer one makes the shoe, the less inherent stability it will provide for the foot itself. Theoretically, then, the lower midsole height shoes, what with their less substantial cushioning systems, would provide more stability than higher midsole heights.

However, this does NOT take into account other potential issues, including muscular imbalances, bone density, foot structure, etc. Also, again, this does not take into account the placement of the foot into a relative “natural” position. But what is natural for you? Do you land with a true natural midfoot stance, or do you land further forward on your foot? This is determinative as to where you wind up in terms of heel-toe drop in the last. For me, I work best in as close to zero drop as possible. Others will need more traditional heel-toe drops, depending on the issue at hand.

Based upon the metatarsal strain that you have suggested, I would recommend something with a bit less flexibility through the forefoot; it seems that you may be overextending through the tail end of your gait cycle. I’d try the Launches. Continued stress through this area would potentially indicate landing too far forward on the foot, and may require slightly more heel-toe drop, at which point the Green Silence, Wave Musha, Nike LunaRacer might become more viable.

Lower midsole heights bear little to no relationship to overall biomechanical stability. The difference, however, lies with the instability of the shoe platform itself. The softer one makes the shoe, the less inherent stability it will provide for the foot itself. Theoretically, then, the lower midsole height shoes, what with their less substantial cushioning systems, would provide more stability than higher midsole heights.

However, this does NOT take into account other potential issues, including muscular imbalances, bone density, foot structure, etc. Also, again, this does not take into account the placement of the foot into a relative “natural” position. But what is natural for you? Do you land with a true natural midfoot stance, or do you land further forward on your foot? This is determinative as to where you wind up in terms of heel-toe drop in the last. For me, I work best in as close to zero drop as possible. Others will need more traditional heel-toe drops, depending on the issue at hand.

Based upon the metatarsal strain that you have suggested, I would recommend something with a bit less flexibility through the forefoot; it seems that you may be overextending through the tail end of your gait cycle. I’d try the Launches. Continued stress through this area would potentially indicate landing too far forward on the foot, and may require slightly more heel-toe drop, at which point the Green Silence, Wave Musha, Nike LunaRacer might become more viable.

Thanks for your input, it helps. The Launches will be here today so we’ll see - the metatarsal strain came up after a 2 hour marathon pace effort last weekend, in my training cycle it was the longest run I’ve done this season for the duration - 5 weeks on the kinvara’s plus both shoes show significant ‘toe-off’ wear, you sound on the right track with your observation. I ran yesterday for an hour on the same kinvara’s, took it easy but after 45mins in I was feeling that on the ‘injured’ foot, I was craving for lumpy ground to fill the gap/recess behind the big toe joint - kinda like needed arch support in that area. Odd thing (to me but probably of no surprise to you) is the fact that my 5-week old K’s show a pronounced indentation in the foot-bed at the big toe joint so you’d think that the area would be supported (the footbed had moulded or compressed permanently to ‘fill the gap’).
Perhaps there’s the clue, footbed has compressed but doesn’t spring-back at the metatarsal during my gait cycle?

Anyways, thats me ‘tuning-in’ and listening to the foot - isn’t that the whole point of minimalist footwear anyways?

Cheers for your insight once again.

Anything in the Lunar line up should work or Gel DS trainers.

resurrection, but I wanted to comment that I too - had a slight strain/bruise/somethign behind my big toe while using the kinvaras.

I gave the A4s a whirl and am so far very happy with them!

Pearl Izumis work well too.