OK, I don’t mean to sound stupid, but I have been trying to do some research on Optygen, the nutritional sports supplement. One of our guys, Nate, has been using it and claims substantial benefits. I am skeptical. I have read all the information on the website for the product. I still don;t understand specifically what the benefit is and how it works. There is some vague reference to “increasing oxygen uptake” but that doesn’t seem possible. Am I missing something? Do you guys know how this stuff works? Does it work? Anybody use it? I’m not convinced.
Good post Tom - I have been trying to figure that one out recently as well - and like you I think I am “missing” something…
I think, like that majority of sports nutrition products, it’s psychological benefits are probably far more real than the physical benefits.
The phosphates in Optygen probably gives it the kick, the studies on the ergogenic effect of sodium phosphate are legion, and the effect is real and repeatable.
However, phosphate loading is best practiced only a few times a season, chronic loading will diminish the effect, as the system adapts to the high levels.
Interesting studies indicate that Cordyceps may aid endurance, but nothing I’ve seen is conclusive.
I think it’s pretty good stuff (since I can’t find TwinLab PhosFuel anymore), I’m going to be selling it in my shop, but I can’t honestly recommend daily usage.
And if it is just psychological, well, speed is speed, no matter where you get it.
I agree with what you say bobo about “speed is speed”. nate, the guy who works here and uses it and feels it works, can;t explain “how” it makes him faster, he just thinks it does- therefore he is faster.
I understand the phosphate loading element of the product. I don;t understand how phosphate loading imporves cycling and running and swimming physiological capabilities. That’s where I’m lost. Given, my understanding of exercise physiology is admittedly rudimentary. Having said that, I do have some understanding of basic exercise physiology- so it only seems resonable that somebody should be able to say something like "Optygen works by causing________ to do _______ which results in ________ that enables you to go faster. I haven’t seen those blanks filled in so that I can really understand how the stuff works, or is supposed to work.
Bobo - Cordyceps is made by what company? It is a form of Phosphate similar to what PhosFuel was for Twin Lab?
You mentioned loading only a couple of times a year so obviously this is done for your “A” races when you taper…what is the loading protocol that you found to be the most effective?
In my opinion, Optygen (like most all other newfangled supplements) works differently depending on your vantage. I believe it works in the manner below:
Optygen Company: Sells direct or to retailer. Makes big profit.
Optygen Retailer: Sells to consumer. Makes small profit.
Optygen Consumer: Spends big money. May enjoy placebo effect. May get a tummy ache.
Yep. That’s how I think it works.
True benefits impossible to prove/refute on the playing field. That’s what’s so great about the supplement biz. You can make a bunch of wild ass claims and nobody can hold you to it. All you need are dubious results of some ‘study’ to back you up.
So Francois, Merci Monsieur, pour le information.
How would you describe this effect in layman’s terms? I gather from your description that there is some benefit from oxygen uptake at the cellular level.
[Fr. wrote:
PS l’information (not le information…and it would be la anyway…information is feminine as everyone knows 
) ]
Does that mean that information needs to be appreciated and needs to know how much she means to me or do I need to give her space and let her exercise her independence?
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
I’ve seen some race photos of her and from what I see she is over-rated. I also think she may be married - I prefer her un-attached little sister - Miss-information.
the studies on the ergogenic effect of sodium phosphate are legion, and the effect is real and repeatable.
Really? Then why do the vast majority of studies find that it does nothing at all?
Maybe it’s the way i read this (in which case i apologise), but you make it sound like there’s lots of studies on phosphate loading, which there isn’t. Whilst, there’s definitely a lack of studies on the subject i’d say that it’s split fairly evenly between working and not working (looking at studies of both calcium and sodium phosphate).
The most recent research (as far as i’m aware) on sodium phosphate loading, did show a significant improvement during a lab 10m TT for power output. We published the abstract in 2001.
On the other hand, I’ve no idea whether Optygen works or not as i’ve never tried it or tested it.
Ric
Someone with a Pile it Higher and Deeper (PhD) may be able to splain it better than me but here is my shot:
Think about your blood as a subway train carrying passengers. Your lungs are suburbia where the workers live and your muscles are the factories where they work. When the subway pulls into the station and the doors open, some workers exit (oxygen) ready to start their shift and some workers board (carbon dioxide) after finishing their shift and the train heads back to the lungs to drop off the tired workers and pick up more fresh ones (kinda Orwellian, ain’t it). The idea behind the phosphate and “shifting the curve to the right” is it is like having a train conductor shout “Get your lazy asses off my train now!” thus a few more fresh workers exit onto the platform. Here is the caveat: Your factory needs to be able to utilize those extra workers (ie: training/increasing capacity) or else they just hang around the plant talking NASCAR. If you take phosphate for an extended period of time, everybody gets used to the train conductor shouting and no extra workers get off the train.
You can get phos from eating beef jerkey, cured meat products etc. I don’t know if it’s the same as taking Optygen or not. It does also help with bone formation, if my memory serves correct.
HTH
Brett
Cordyceps Sinensis is a mushroomy-fungus type thingy. I’m pretty sure it’s not the kind that’s growing in my MTB shoes.
E-Caps makes a simple sodium phosphate concoction (Race Day Boost), try it out, it might work for you, it might not. All it’ll cost you is 20 bucks and maybe a tummy ache.
<<What if there are already only a few shift workers left on the train when the conductor (phosphate) starts shouting? >>
Then phosphate won’t help. From what I understand, it does not assist with the carrying capacity. Granted that is what EPO is about, a bigger subway car with more workers.
Brett
I’d stay away from Miss Information, she’s a trampy little bitch, and I’ve heard she’s been with almost every man on this forum, and a few of the women, too.
TheChameleon did a fine job of reducing this process to an understandable context. Thanks! Now, does the product really do what it claims? Only one way to find out: I got a bottle of the stuff on the counter at home. Provided my cat has eaten it all while I’m at work I’ll take the crap for a month and see if it helps me at Laguna Phuket, Thailand on November 29. I’ll let you guys know what I do or don’t find out.
Thanks again bobo, francois, thechameleon and others. I appreciate it. Once again, this forum is revealed as the one and only oracle of insight, the last bastion of truth, the only true haven of intellectuals, athletes of supreme disposition and men of astounding physical attractiveness such as ourselves to name but a few.
and psychological conceptions can be monstrous (not exactly on topic, but…)-
i’m currently in the process of trying to overcome a stutter, which is currently thought to most definitely be psychologically. one of the thoughts as to how stutters are created, though certainly not the majority thought, is that the child who’s parents diagnose their normal dysfluencies as a stutter continues stuttering. in my own attempts at self therapy, i’m trying to not change my word choice at all because of the stutter, but i have been for so long that avoiding words that are hard to say is currently a subconcious process, so not only do i have trouble saying parts of words, but because i have that trouble with some words, when i am not forced to use a specific word that is hard to say, my brain almost skips over it in hunting for words. good or bad, it does.
and it’s a great day outside, and like every other day, i am off to crew practice. race tomorrow at yale. but no time at all to ride. disappointing in the most.
darrell
Athough Im not sure how it all works but can only give some of my experiasnces. I have taken it for 6 months now and really still dont know if its works that well, it probaly does but I did think its worth $50 dollars a bottle. But thats my opinion. Maybe if I was a top pro or something I might need that little more of an edge.
And when the workers throw off their chains they become free radicals, spreading anarchy throughout our tidy capitalist analogy of the cardio-vascular system. I love these socio-philosopho-biological discussions!
Now, does the product really do what it claims? Only one way to find out: I got a bottle of the stuff on the counter at home. Provided my cat has eaten it all while I’m at work I’ll take the crap for a month and see if it helps me at Laguna Phuket…
Alternatively, if your cat has eaten it, you could put him/her on a treadmill to test it. - lol