Age groupers who are psuedo age groupers

Triathlon Forum
61

yes you are right, yes you undertsatnd the poitnt of my post better than men, silly me. Of course the person going under 9 is satisfied is he satisfied beating out the mums and dads of the worlds who did not have his backgroung, probably and hopefully not.

It does not make me look bad as he or she is no reflection on me as we all have different goals. I’m not new to ST I normally just read and now I know why, you can’t have a sensibel discussion in this place as you are all determined to not only tell somebody else they are wrong but abuse them along the way.

Chapman would have won his category if it was open male, he probably would have been happier to beat a bunch of like skilled athelets instead of the civil servant who had no elite sports background.

That is assuming that pros are like pros in other sports.

I stand by the point I think it would be a good idea to try it see if it helps, it has been tried and some people like it. If ot then don’ why not just say you don’t like it, why do others (not you) have to call me a bitch. Anyway I have refused to go to thier level so far and I will continue to rty and discuss this reasonably

62

Sorry if I ready yours wrong but I was under fire from many directions and I probably jumped the gun. I think that you are right and the attitude is the prevailing one, clearly on this forum anyway. The AG ex pro thing won’t kill tris you are right and changing it up won’t grow the sport either.

I think there are a group of people out there who fit into this small category and who might be happier with the compettion that this category offers them. Happy to be wrong

63

He/ she would also get satisfaction from posting times closer to the pros, that holds true for most pros in most other sports, we create a divsion based on weight and age groups so why bother having these divsions? Answer it provides the oppurtunity to give reward over and baobe the joy of competition to to more people and thus keep more people in the sport for longer wahich in turn is good for the sport.

Thankyou for making a post which dealt with the conetent of the post and stayed away from personal insults. In terms of the satsifaction the open competitor gets satisfaction from having a close race with atheletes of similiar ability. Unfortunatley most of the other posts have gone to the personal and agressive tone that is unfortunatley comonplace in the USA
Ah, good. Resorting to bashing the “ugly American”. Good way to keep it civil.

From your OP:

I'm annoyed with the publicity that is given to age groupers who break records, prime example:

Why should you be annoyed? Why would you even care? You repeatedly say “I’m not looking for Kona”, so why would it even bother you?

If Pele showed up to play at your local pitch in the intramural leagues, would that annoy you too?

is that there needs to be a category for open male and female, for ex pros and age groupers who are age groupers in name only.
What is an “age grouper in name only”? You separate ex-pros, so it obviously isn’t them. Or is someone that races AG and gets a 9:15, do you immediately assume that they should be pro, so they are AG in name only? Do they annoy you too?

Maybe this is all bitterness as I can’t go fast enough to get a Kona slot, once it was 10 hours, then 9;45 and now 9:30 then the ex pro comes along and takes it down to 9:15, yes he made the sacrifice that I did not (plus he had talent) but surely the creation of the open category makes sense
So how would you enforce this? If someone races AG, and they go below 9:30, then they aren’t really an AGer? They are immediately moved to this new wonder class, because that’s the only place they can get satisfaction from racing?

I’m guessing that yes, it’s some bitterness combined with an off the wall idea that really makes no sense to anyone but you. In my martial arts (ATA), when I competed in top 10 weapons (That is the final tournament of the top 10 ranked that determine the ATA World Champion for the next year), the top ranked competitor in my group was a former NASKA national champion, which is basically pro status. I didn’t win, but I also didn’t whine that “Gee, that’s unfair he was there!”

It’s called luck of the draw. You put your best out there. If you beat your PB, great, good on you. If not, there’s always another race. If we “water down” the qualification to where you COULD go fast enough to qualify for Kona, is it really worth it?

John

64

Good post and I already do what you are suggesting, since I started doing this sport for the first time in 7 years, 1.5 years ago, I made a concious decison to stay away from other triatheltes, train alone with an online coach and stay away from the tri community.

In a moment of weakness I guess I decided to see what it was like out thier in tri world and it looks like nothing has changed, the egos are bigger, the smack talking worse and the treatment of our fellow person not so flash.

To be fair your post and the one from support crew were the excpetion and its good to see some nice people out there who can have a discussion without resorting to personal insults. Anyway I’m back of training as I have a Kona slot to win and maybe post a time good enought to get me into the open category

65

To be fair I think I stayed above the personal stuff for much longer than those attacking me instead of the post. The Ugly American thing was your call, however just look how quickly this thread became a personal attack, most likely by posters in North America, maybe some in Europe and the occasional insomniac.

I have stayed away from bashing the ex pro , but I said it annoyed me, look the guy was a top class athelte had his time and now he is running around in the age groups basically taking away oppurtunities from others. okay you guys say tough good for the ex pro and stop whinging to the me and anybody else who thinks the recent ex pro might find it a bit more worthwhile to take on other people of similiar ability.

Maybe they just love competing and enjoying the sport, good for them they might enjoy it with a different category maybe not. As we are yet to see the post from the ex pro or soon to be ex pro I assume that the people who are posting on this don’t fit into this category and can’t relate to the issue, so it’s no surprise to see the material that is on here today.

If Pele showed up i’d blast past him as he is too old, maradona is too fat and George Best is dead, but if say Lothar Matthaues or Romario showed up in my local soccer league their tema would lose the points for playing him in the first place and possibbly lose more league points as football is smart and has rules for players who should not be there.

Not sure if i said i was not looking for a kona slot, not this year as i’m not good enough no matter who shows up and my PB makes me happy. The open category has been trialled and worked sometimes and not other times, eg when you get two people in a race. So i’m not the only person who thinks this, but anyway the ST jury has spoken for what that is worth reminding me why I only ever used to read and look in on in amazement at the behaviour of my fellow man

66

Best of luck too you but remember that Kona is not he be-all and end-all. If it motivates you to get out and work harder and get closer to your potential then good on you. If you let it define success and drive happiness and satisfaction in the sport I think your missing the point of our great sport.

I raced at a little sprint in VA this weekend and had a blast! I’m totally psyched that race season is back and i get to hang with a bunch of great people doing something I love! This is what it’s all about.

67

In a moment of weakness I guess I decided to see what it was like out thier in tri world and it looks like nothing has changed, the egos are bigger, the smack talking worse and the treatment of our fellow person not so flash.

You’re taking most of these posts too personally. Instead, you need to consider whether the sarcasm is an indicator of the validity of your position and the strength of your argument.

Step back, re-think your position. DawnT gave a concise and thorough response. If her initial post doesn’t shift your position, nothing will.

The life blood of the sport is the majority of triathletes who don’t care about award/recognition divisions. They compete from within and often chase the person who happens to be in front of them, or fend off the one chasing them.

The best reason for any separate division (pro) is to allocate the appropriate resources to ensure a fair race for the money.

An Age Group Record for a course or distance is meaningless if it excludes for any basis other than age. So, I guess I would agree that it is silly to recognize a 40 year-old’s Age record if a 40 year-old pro posted a faster result.

68

I say bring it. I’d love for Natascha Badmann to be in my age group one day. She’d beat me like a dirty rug in a sprint but few other sports let you compete in the same event with the pros. My kids and jobs aren’t disabilities that I need to be handicapped for in a race IMO. The best thing about triathlon is that all the folks in my wave are equal when the gun goes off - then its just me and the clock to see who wins baby!

69

If the ex pros who come down to the age group ranks don’t feel this hollowness when they destroy their age group, then it pretty much sums up why they are ex pros and why they most liley never made it big time as pro.

If this isn’t an offensive personal attack toward ex-pros who race as age-groupers, I don’t know what is.

I’m not trying to attack you, but if you’re going to bring your “bitterness” (your word) toward ex-professional triathletes to a triathlon on-line forum, you should at least learn to spell the word TRIATHLON.

70

you should at least leart to spell the word TRIATHLON.
Ouch, hate it when that happens.

71

Me too. Thought I fixed it in time. I guess not.

72

I’d just like to point out that the people who think pros will not want to drop AG because of the lack of competition. Many just aren’t wired that way and care about winning.

Its pretty common in cycling for a guy to sandbag a few races so they can drop a CAT and actually have a chance to win.

Its going to happen and there’s not too much to stop it, pros leave the ranks all the time. The only real issue is they are taking a Kona slot away from what it was intended to be. If they win the AG, no one should really care.

73

John, I think you missed his point, which was that anyone faster than him ought to turn pro, or stay home.

It’s a little bit like driving: anyone going slower than you is an idiot, anyone going faster than you is a maniac (not you personally)

74

ahhh… that one again. :slight_smile:

Like usual I say: I would like to see them put away with the pro-division. Everyone race according to their age. Period.

Everything else gets complicated. As someone posted: What about living at altitude? What about early retirement? No kids?

Axel

75

John, I think you missed his point, which was that anyone faster than him ought to turn pro, or stay home.

It’s a little bit like driving: anyone going slower than you is an idiot, anyone going faster than you is a maniac (not you personally)
Oh, crap, you’re right. And here I’ve been trying to figure him out rationally. Silly me.

John

76

“Age groups are stupid.”

I like age groups. I get satisfaction when I am able to compete well against my peers. Besides, when you get to be 59 years old, it is not that easy (fair?) competing against the 30 year-olds (although I can still whip most of those weenies).

My thinking is that the more people who get post race awards the better. Why not add a bit of sports satisfaction to their lives.

BTW- I think the original poster is off base. If someone trains harder
and/or has better genes, so be it.

77

Ah so after we have multiple examples of name calling and abuse directed at myself the mob now takes the moral high ground. I said if they don’t feel a bit hollow about it they it might say something about them, not a personal attack. It can’t be personal as it is not directed at a person, is it offensive, I can’t say as I’m not an ex pro who fits into this category and as none of these people have come forward and posted on the item I can’t say if they are offended.

I think being called a bitch by an another male is offensive and a fair bit more offensive, but as you already know everything I’ll let you judge that as you already havemade your mind up and spectaculallry missed the point of the post.

Don’t care about the spelling, its a forum where clealry the content is not edited so it’s not really worth spell checking so long as the message gets through, maybe you are right, myabe its my spelling that has you confused

78

it’s not really worth spell checking so long as the message gets through …

The message got through loud and clear, thanks!

79

So what is a retired “pro” who is still very good supposed to do? Not race? Just sit on the sidelines and watch?

Yes - Instead of spending 4 hours a day training, they need to spend 4 hours a day on ST :slight_smile:

80

I assume that by huim you are meaning me, I like yoru claim to be trying to figure me out rationally, try focussing on the point, not what you think or want the point to be so that you can sit on here and post sarcy remarks about points that you are taking out of all context.

The point is not about people being faster it is about people who may or may not be having an impact on the experience of others whne they don’t suit the cateogory they are in.

Allocate slots in open male using the same formula as for ag grouper, work out what that formula is, percentage time within a pro time perhaps, or through atheletes wanting electing who are good enough.

The Nations Tri in DC has an open category so thye thought it was a good idea and plenty people want to do it, funny how really good people wnat to test themselves against other really good people.

As for your remark on trying to figure me out rationally, well you admitted failure and if you can’t understand the point then that says a lot about you