The sacrcasm is dripping, this whole debate or rather complete inability to have one reminds me why I stopped doing this sport the first time to many crankers out there.
Go back to one of my earlier posts, i played a sport at a high level and using a valid comparison siad I can’t see what an ex elite gets out of competing against people who can’t compete, for most real ex elites the answer is nothing, which is why many of them don’t play thier chosen sport again or do something different.
Triathalon seems to bring back a fair number of people into the sport as AG probably as they enjoy the fittness and social aspect, the only point being made was that they might be happier in an open category maybe I’m totally wrong, and if I am it may say more about the genuine elitness of the ex pro in the first place
In sailboat racing, they have separated the participants into 3 categories: amateur (no compensation), pro (paid to participate in races) and “industry” people who earn their livelihood from working as suppliers, for vendors or as coaches. That has been a big help to the sport because it was common practice for people in the latter category technically be an amateur but still have a huge advantage because they get paid to live, work and train in the sport.
You would be wrong as you were wrong about the point of my post in the first place, Better gear is a marginal advantage anyway once you have gootne to a basic level and I like awarding myself 10 dollars spending money for evey guy I pass with a zipp disc or aero helmet.
If you only work 2 days a week, you are either very fortunate or don’t make enough cash to fund your training or diet, so that won’t matter.
Cool camp would help but not a discriminator, gets to train all year round well lest face it anybody can do that so long as they are willing to use an indoor bike trainer, treadmill and face the elements
The creation of an open category would work, has been tried and does work, yeah you’ll always get people who don’t fit in, like the ex college 10,000 m guy but who cares, try it , it could work.
So ex-college 1500/5000 guy is ok? Glad I don’t have to feel empty about overall podiums in the local races.
Open categories work just fine in big races like Lifetime fitness, but they also offer an incentive. Top 3 get pro cards, and top 5 (i believe) get a free trip to Dallas for the US Open championships. I’ve done other races which offer prize money for the “open” category but do not require a USAT elite license. If you take any part of that purse, even if not elite, you’re still a “pro”.
It has nothing to do with who trains more it is about ensuring that the sport has something to offer for everybody not just the elite and semi elite. This includes making it more rewarding for the ex pro
How does this make it more rewarding for the former Pro? Assuming he winning AG prizes, he is beating everyone now. Separating retired Pros into another division does nothing to change his competition, except make it smaller. A lot of AGers can beat former Pros. I know one Why take them out of the former Pro’s equation?
Triathlon has two divisions. Pro-which only means those competing for prize money. It does not imply any “profession”. Most are either supported or support themselves with other jobs.
Age group - which covers EVERYONE else not in the “money” division. AG is not the equivalent of amateur. Do we really need MORE divisions than that.
Does it boil down to “fair”? No, its a race. The clock is the only judge of what is fair. Its not about everybody gets a prize. Not everyone can go to Kona.
The flak you are getting is probably because most of us would like to compete against EVERYONE in our AG no matter what their background is. Some don’t even want AGs. Very few want to exclude people from an AG by making a separate category for fast people.
Your comparison to soccer is senseless since soccer is a team sport and triathlon is not.
The ex-pro is not racing against you. He is racing against himself.
Nothing stopped you from trying to be a professional cyclist or triathlete. This is still a free country. You had every opportunity that he had, so you can’t say it’s not fair. He just chose to actually do the training to get him where he is.
In addition, no one said life was fair. Most people learn that in kindergarten.
You need to find a way to find satisfaction in your racing based on your own ability - not compared to who else shows up. If you beat your PR by over an hour, but finish 10 spots down from where you did a year ago does that mean you didn’t have a successful race? I hope not.
There are already way too many classifications when racing. Adding another one is ridiculous just so you can get a star on your forehead when you finish in the top-3.
Most people who are posting obnoxious things in this thread are just tired of hearing people whine about stuff like this. Just go train and enjoy life. That’s what it should be about.
If obnoxious postings on ST are what’s going to stop you from racing, you need to stop reading ST. Seriously. There are more important things to worry about. Most of the obnoxious postings make me laugh. Stop taking them so seriously and relax a bit.
Most of us think it’s pretty cool to race against former pros. You should try to find the fun in that instead of seeing it as a negative.
At what point was it about not achieveing a PB, as for crying to your mother, you are going to level that is so childish its not worth trying to discuss the point which is, would having an open category benefit the sport.
I said yes.
The majority of the rest of you clearly think no, and I accept that, can’t see ahy you can’t just say you don’t agree and lay of the persoanl abuse
utter tosh, elite sports is elite sports look at Beckham playing in MLS, found it to be a joke, his team mates were clueless so he tried to wangle a wya bck to Milan, no satisfaction.
As for the obnoxious responses, the post was not a whine it proposed an alternative, ever quick to jump on a thread most of them sompletelty missed the pint an decided to call me a bitch girl and make it about me.
**utter tosh, elite sports is elite sports look at Beckham playing in MLS, found it to be a joke, his team mates were clueless so he tried to wangle a wya bck to Milan, no satisfaction. **
Your comparison is ridiculous. Are you saying that someone finishing with a sub-9:00 IM can’t find satisfaction in the sport simply because he has to race in an AG classification? Come on - you’re just trying to be obtuse for the sake of your argument. Satisfaction in triathlon, when you are not a pro, should come from beating your own best times, not by beating the other people in your AG.
As for the obnoxious responses, the post was not a whine it proposed an alternative, ever quick to jump on a thread most of them sompletelty missed the pint an decided to call me a bitch girl and make it about me
It was a whine. Go back and read your posts. You were complaining about the fact that there is no other category for him to race in and therefore it made you look bad and took away Kona slots.
If you’re surprised about the personal attacks, then I can only assume you’re new to ST. You need a flame-proof outfit to post on here.
I’d say quit worrying about what the other people do and focus on doing your best. If you do, then the rest of it really doesn’t matter. Take satisfaction from knowing you worked hard and did the best you can–don’t focus on external validation for internal satisfaction.
This is a minority sport and yes we have had a boom phase, keep going with your attitude and we end up with a sport for a very small elite group who complain about the rest of the world not caring about their sport and or the lack of coverage it gets\
SOrry if you got offended by my *sarcastic *remark, but I wasn’t trying to attack you. I suppose you may be new around here, and as I said, we have gone through this question many times, the most heated was the Steve Larsen AG era…And I dont think my attitude is going to kill the sport, in fact from most of the responses to your question, it is obvious that my attitude is the prevailing one. And the sport has been doing quite well lately, so I’m not sure where you get that this ex pro/AG debate is going to kill it. Maybe it does not work well for you, or you just do not like it, but apparently you are in the small minority, and the sport really does not care about the issue enough to change it…That’s all…
I’m with the OP.
We need an enforceable system to enforce divisions based on Age Groupers, Professionals, Full Time Workers, Part Time Workers, and sadly the Unemployed.
Once you sign up for a race it should be mandatory that a race representative lives with you for a week to accurately determine one’s proper division. Yes, this will add to race costs but clearly it’s worth it to ensure a competitive playing field.
There will be three Professional divisions, one for each level of time one devotes to work outside triathlon and likewise for Age Group athletes. Now the Professional Age Grouper will have to face off against his/her brethren.
The Unemployed Age Grouper category would be one hell of a battle this year. Who do you think would win it at Kona?
Kona isn’t really a goal of mine, so I never put any thought into how a further breakdown of classification might impact that. I think that there might be some merit to a Masters category, though it should be no younger than 50 as a lot of people just keep getting faster and faster through their 40’s.
I’m all for a masters pro category that begins at 40, and a senior one at 50… We had one for awhile, but it didnt have much momentum, perhaps when there are more people to fill in those fields, and some geratric sponsors to put up the cash…Maybe the Geritol Senior Triathlon tour, primes by Depends, Viagra, and Nutracal…
**Open category needs to be under 45. How the hell am I supposed to compete with Tom Evans and Steve Larsen. Neither powercranks nor Bento Box can elevate me to that level. Then again, you get to race Dave Scott, Scott Molina, Joe Boness and Monty in the over 50 category…I don’t know what is worse?. ****I picked the right parents for writing and speaking but not for triathlon. **
He/ she would also get satisfaction from posting times closer to the pros, that holds true for most pros in most other sports, we create a divsion based on weight and age groups so why bother having these divsions? Answer it provides the oppurtunity to give reward over and baobe the joy of competition to to more people and thus keep more people in the sport for longer wahich in turn is good for the sport.
Thankyou for making a post which dealt with the conetent of the post and stayed away from personal insults. In terms of the satsifaction the open competitor gets satisfaction from having a close race with atheletes of similiar ability. Unfortunatley most of the other posts have gone to the personal and agressive tone that is unfortunatley comonplace in the USA
Why take them out of the former Pro’s equation?