Okay this is all a bunch of theory based on a lot of facts I’ve read and my own experience so hang with me on this.
Pretty simple question - If my weekly aerobic/base/endurance workouts consist of 65% cycling, 20% Swimming and 15% Running, even though my aerobic system is being being developed very well would my actual aerobic run speed not be effected because I’m not running enough?
Here some background information. So I have a strong and experienced running background (aka I’m fast and can hold it), mid level cycling background, and newcomer to swimming as of the last 10 months. I also read all of Maffetone’s Endurance & Racing book (the yellow one with Mark Allen doing the foreword, etc.) and I implemented this for 16 weeks about 8 months ago. then I went into my speed/threshold for 12 weeks during the Tri season (down here in Australia). Now im in week 6 of base/building endurance and improving my aerobic speed and I’m not seeing any real gains in aerobic speed since week 16 MAF test that I did back in early Feb 2013. in the last 6 weeks while my aerobic speed doing the MAF test hasn’t gone down, it’s not doing signficicant drops like I was seeing back last year. every 4 weeks I was dropping about .5 min/mi or30 seconds (15ish seconds off min/km) off of my mile pace at 150hr. so I went from 9:04 min/mi (5:40 min/km ish) down to about 7:50 min/mi (4:50min/km ish). Again this was 4 months ago before I went into building my speed/threshold/anaerobic system for the sprint Tri’s.
For the last 6 weeks I’ve only been running about 90 min per week total but have been putting in 4-5 hours per week on the bike and 2-2.5 hours in the pool (to improve my swimming). I am running my first marathon in September and I didn’t want to over train for it too early and over work my legs. I also really enjoy getting in cycling time before it gets too cold down here in Australia.
So again, I ask… while my endurance and aerobic speed on the bike and pool feels amazing and is getting stronger and stronger, are my run speeds staying the same because I don’t run even though my heart and aerobic system is the fittest and strongest it’s ever been? Is it because I just don’t run enough to see gains in my aerobic run speed?
Sorry for the longevity in this dynamic question but I wanted to know what the consensus of the slowtwitch forum guys was before I started slowly transitioning to more run focused workouts to get ready for the marathon.
I’m convinced you can build a tremendous amount of aerobic fitness in the pool if you swim fast (whatever fast is for you). I’m not sure 2.5 hrs a week will do it, I’m doing a 5k meters a day.
I agree. I mean doing anything can help your aerobic system. I enjoy swimming but not as much as cycling. And there are but so many hours per day/week and I’d rather be spending them doing something I enjoy. I also want to spend the least amount of time in the pool as possible and maximize my results (doesn’t everyone… I mean unless you love doing 5k a day in a pool, haha)
Okay a bit off topic and didn’t at all answer my question about aerobic run speed vs bike speed. Thanks though for the side banter!
Ha, thanks for simplifying it! you are right though. I have fitness ADD and I really do enjoy running moderately hard/steady/tempo type runs. going all out isn’t fun as well as going super slow for endurance. Guess I’ll just make goals every few months and then go after those goals to keep me focused on something I enjoy doing.
I just think people in this sport are so focused on doing all three sports that it is actually detrimental to their results.
Running takes away from your bike… just as swimming takes away from your run… Instead of slowly building each sport over the year… I find it much better to gain big time in one event (which actually makes the biggest time savings in an event) and allow the other two sports to reap the benefits from consistent quality training.
Tri-livin - yeah I am 100% starting to see that. I get anxiety trying to make workouts for this, and that then cater for this and that, etc. I think after the marathon in September I’m going to spend 2-3 months in 2013 focusing on each sport with endurance, technique work, thresholds, speed, power, etc. and then if races (in whatever sport or even tri’s) that I will enjoy do come up I just jump in. Even if it’s something I’m not focused on at that moment, just do it to do it and not expect to be the fastest just enjoy it for enjoyment sake.
Thanks, I def needed to hear that. Most Tri magazines, blogs, sites, etc. don’t tell you that.
I have a solid running background (marathon running) and now as a reincarnation as triathlete, have found that the aerobic gains from my cycling and even swimming definitely translate to the run.
There’s a big HOWEVER, though:
For both running and cycling, you’re more often than not limited by your muscular sport-specific leg endurance than your actual cardio. If your legs aren’t fit enough for the specific sport, you’ll run your HR into the red zone too quickly. This isn’t a matter of insufficient cardio - it’s a matter of not having sport-specific leg endurance to work efficiently and aerobically at speed. In pure 5ks and 10ks, I actually run at 98-99% of my times as a pure runner, but I see a significant dropoff at the half marathon standalone, and I’ll bet if I ran a marathon, it would be a +15 or more differential with my low run mileage as a triathlete.
Unfortunately, sounds like you’re planning to do your first marathon with triathlete type mileage. I can guarantee with certainty that it’s going to be a really rough day for you out there, although you’ll still finish. Prepare for some serious suffering after mile 6, and all of the next two days after the race, no matter how slowly you run the thing. The marathon in particular, heavily rewards leg-specific endurance built really only by piling on the miles. You never push yourself into cardio red-zone during the marathon, so all that aerobic training you got from cycling and swimming hard don’t give you any advantage whatsoever, and you’re lacking the mileage base of run pounding to really maintain your pace through 26 miles.
Of course, if you’re a really strong/experienced runner, you may be able to pull it off on that base alone, but the times you were throwing out like 7:50min/mile make this sound less likely.
Lighteir - Thanks for the info. I’m not going to jump into a marathon with only tri training and low running (65% cycling, 20% swim, 15% run). That’s just dumb. I have enough running background not to do that. and the 7:50 pace is my MAF Max (150 max hr). I can maintain a 6:45 pace for some time (obviously need to do a lot of tempo runs at this pace to be able to maintain it 26.2 times) so I’m looking to run a sub 3 hour marathon through my training but I feel that if I start piling on the running miles (even if they are slow) now I might run into some issues and like I said, I enjoy cycling so I want to get a bit more in before it gets cold down here in Australia.
So yeah, over the next 4 weeks I will be transitioning to more running and by June/July I should be putting in 50-60 mile weeks if not more and have my workouts be run heavy rather than swim and bike. The swimming and cycling will be just for recovery sessions and to have my body “remember how to do it”.
I’m obviously trying to have my cake and eat it too with this training as I’m trying to prepare for some longer tri’s later this year but also run a sub 3 hour marathon… we’ll see if my ambition to do everything all at once works. I mean at least I’ll have fun trying right?
