Personally, I’ve become a really tentative descender since having two kids. And the primary Tris that I do (well when they are actually held) are Wildflower and Donner Lake. Both have extreme down hill sections. At WF LC, there is a segment where many folks go over 50mph. That is just nuts. It is a friggin miracle that more crashes didn’t happen there.
Simply put, I hate descending on flat base bars where you feel like your hands will slip off. I’ve resorted to actually putting on regular drop bars on many of my past bikes to remedy the situation, as Darkspeedworks has mentioned he does as well. I’ve also tried more upturned base bars from 3T and Vision in the past as well as, in the olden days, making bullhorns out of road bars and sawing off the ends (probably the best solution so far).
The problem with this is the seat angle on a tri bike. It puts you way out front. So even with a road bike bar, it still feels awkward and vulnerable because your body is farther forward. And though your hands feel more secure on a regular road bar, your elbows and hands are behind where you would normally feel comfortable on a descent.
3T tried to come up with a solution with the Revo; I tried them. They felt fragile, narrow, and slippery. They don’t have enough reach to feel secure.
Bottom line, a base bar that has dramatically more reach to mimic a true roadbike descending position would maybe solve this issue. The grip position would need to be low and long.
I’ve had trouble understanding the vagueness of Eric’s thread so I’ll chime in here. Sure there is that feeling of slipping with flat hoods, but a TT/Tri bike is a piece of specialized equipment, correct? It’s not built for the purpose of descending. It’s built to go fast in a straight line over flat terrain. Providing it does this job well, as long as it does other jobs well enough I’m not worried. That said, if flat and upturned were completely equal, why not use upturned? I will never purchase a bar with upturned ones for two reasons:
There may be a very, very minimal aero benefit to flat hoods. Now I could believe that with brake levers coming down anyways the front area doesn’t actually really increase, but it seems like flat would be faster.
The most important reason: they don’t look as cool. They also often have to be longer when there is an upturn and I personally think the bigger the difference between the hood and extension, the more weapon-like it looks.
Simply put, I hate descending on flat base bars where you feel like your hands will slip off. I’ve resorted to actually putting on regular drop bars on many of my past bikes to remedy the situation, as Darkspeedworks has mentioned he does as well.
You bet.
Long ago, l raced Donner Lake. The descent on the way back to the lake is the perfect storm for this issue: you need to go very fast and it is very steep, it is pretty technical, and the pavement was/is, putting it very mildly, in dreadful shape.
And, yes, l raced it with drop bars and clip-ons. As a result l pretty much FLEW by many riders who were skittering down the descent gingerly on their full TT bars, trying hard just to stay on the bloody road.
As a result, l made great time on the bike and had an outstanding result. Sure, l rode hard, but the drop bar handlebar set up made all the difference for me.
I’m another person who went the way of putting road bike drop bars, as base bars, on my tri bike. I could never get comfortable with the stock base bars. Better climbing position (drops), better handling, and better brake levers.
the problem isn’t the base bars. it’s the brake levers.
The plug in design of most current TT levers is a leftover from the original dia compe 188’s, which was designed as a lever for flat-bar commuter bikes. they don’t really work that well on bars with an upturn. They stick out in the wind, they need a certain amount of straight section to be installed properly, and they put the lever a long way away from the basebar.
They SHOULD be designed with a band clamp just like regular road levers. That would allow for the upturn or flat style basebars, and still allow the levers to be easily reached, They could even be made with rubber “hoods” that provide grip, or allow a bar end that you could install for more security on technical sections.
The closest I had to that were the Vision crab claw levers, but they were still stuck on the end.
Okay, I’ll bite on this thread about base bars. My tri bike has tririg alpha x bars, and while they are GREAT bars I have never liked how flat they were. I live and train in flat and fast Florida, but do travel some and get into some hilly and technical races. I never felt secure or confident shifting into the drops on those bars. Unfortunately I had an ‘encounter’ during a race with a car and I am replacing the frame and bars.
I’m considering going with the PD Aeria Evo. ( https://profile-design.com/collections/aluminium-aerobars/products/aeria-a-evo ) . They have the slight upturn at the end, similar to the bars on my very first tri bike. I feel the upturn helps me ‘lock in’ more securely and control the bike. And that will allow me to go faster the 5% of the time (or less) I am out of aero on a technical section of a course or climbing.
I don’t know how much of an aero disadvantage that slight upturn is, but I have to believe it is minimal to none-at-all.
the problem isn’t the base bars. it’s the brake levers.
The plug in design of most current TT levers is a leftover from the original dia compe 188’s, which was designed as a lever for flat-bar commuter bikes. they don’t really work that well on bars with an upturn. They stick out in the wind, they need a certain amount of straight section to be installed properly, and they put the lever a long way away from the basebar.
They SHOULD be designed with a band clamp just like regular road levers. That would allow for the upturn or flat style basebars, and still allow the levers to be easily reached, They could even be made with rubber “hoods” that provide grip, or allow a bar end that you could install for more security on technical sections.
The closest I had to that were the Vision crab claw levers, but they were still stuck on the end.
The advantage of the plug-in levers (DiaComp 188, et al) are that they can be aero/lower profile than band-on, since the pivot and cable pull can be in line with the bar (vs. out in front of the bar/band). That being said, the DiaComps were a really cheap commuter part that was repurposed and even the levers that have followed are poorly engineered compared with their drop bar counterparts. All this is compounded by the generally poor quality of hidden brakes. Hopefully the switch to hydraulic discs will improve things a bit.
Regarding extended base bars, Cinelli used to make a ridiculously deep one, the Tempo, back in the 26.0 days. These days there are some long ones that are typically stoker bars for tandems.
Interesting, I far prefer basebars to top of hoods on high speed descends. But… I am short guy and can’t wrap my hand securely enough around the top and more concerned about highspeed micro-bumps knocking my hands off slightly. I like the drops, but if you are sawing off the end, that’s clearly not what you are using.
I think the fundamental to descending on tri-bike is weight distribution. Extending the cokpit will only make that worse. I think the answer is to push your body back. If you have trouble, the keep your pedal in the 3/9 position, it’ll lift your body up enough that you can pull your body back for braking.
Your legs might be behind your saddle, but then it’s not dissimilar to descending steep drops on a 90s XC bike (the slight less olden days).
in the olden days, making bullhorns out of road bars and sawing off the ends (probably the best solution so far).
3T tried to come up with a solution with the Revo; I tried them. They felt fragile, narrow, and slippery. They don’t have enough reach to feel secure.
Bottom line, a base bar that has dramatically more reach to mimic a true roadbike descending position would maybe solve this issue. The grip position would need to be low and long.
I think this bar may be an ideal solution to this issue. Good idea, maybe just needed some refinement of the concept.
3T tried to come up with a solution with the Revo; I tried them. They felt fragile, narrow, and slippery. They don’t have enough reach to feel secure.
Bottom line, a base bar that has dramatically more reach to mimic a true roadbike descending position would maybe solve this issue. The grip position would need to be low and long.
I think this bar may be an ideal solution to this issue. Good idea, maybe just needed some refinement of the concept.
I think this concept is an attempt to remedy a poor overall format without actually addressing the main issue. The Morf bar is capable of addressing both descending stability and grip, and low drag, by eliminating the static base bar and extensions in favour of a single hand-hold which switches from one position to the other. Use bars with some upturn like a typical set of ski bend (with the brakes on the end) and you should be able to achieve good grip and stability when needed. You can then switch to the low drag configuration and the base bar is gone entirely. You just have extensions with ski bars.
I have two of the original MORF bars sitting in my bike room (I became friendly with Frank, long story, RIP). There are two sides of the MORF fence. Thomas Gerlach mentioned that he thought it was a dangerous concept as his muscle memory was trained to reach for a base bar that simply no longer existed and he wasn’t keen on the change. I, on the other hand, adapted to the concept in about 30 seconds.
Even for those who adapt quickly, there is a minor flaw in that play develops as the internal cables stretch and this causes the grip areas to free-float about 5 degrees when the bar is locked back. Frank had plans to address this but I don’t believe they were ever implemented.
I gave him the idea for the integrated brake levers which took inspiration from MTB levers (one finger braking with index finger) and provided room for a mechanical shifter. However, they needed to go through a second revision as V1 didn’t provide an adequate gap between the pinky and ring fingers if you had medium to large sized hands. I don’t know if that revision was ever made.
Away from the topic of MORF, a very simple base bar design I’ve never seen implemented would be to literally just “flip” the base bar so that the grips run backwards (use a longer stem or sweep the bar forward like the REVO to compensate). It would basically be a Revo without the drop. I jerry rigged this with an aluminum Felt basebar and it worked great, bar just needs to be drilled differently to facilitate internal routing.
What is the advantage of the base bar grips running rearward? It does not seem that would keep a rider from still slipping forward off the grips …
Your thumbs would lock in behind the basebar and prevent you sliding forwards. If im getting his description correct that is …
In theory, sure, but that would mean that the rider would have to twist both of his/her wrists massively inward, and seems like that would be very very uncomfortable. At least that 3T aero bar had a ridge that was oriented vertically which a rider could at least anchor against effectively. But anchoring against a horizontal ridge? That would just not work …
That PD bar looks good for you. If the brake levers you fit have any reach adjustment, you may be able stop the levers pointing downwards so much (making sure you still have enough travel to brake safely).
The bars are drilled for the cables to route internally close to the levers, so rather than wrapping with standard bulky bar tape, investigate 3M gripping material/tape. I cannot find my roll, but it’s something like Gripping Material TB641. I have used short lengths of it on the upturned bit of my basebars. It is rubbery, so much more comfortable than skateboard deck tape & flexible, to conform to bends & curves. There is no need for the shock-absorption etc of standard bar-tape, as you shouldn’t be braking for that long. So, you should gain back some more aero through the slightly reduced frontal area. Of course, you can also use the tape at the ends of the extensions.
