Reading the other hill thread made me think of this this morning: Is there (or not?) an advantage to being tall and skinny vs. shorter and stouter (assume weight is equal) when climbing hills on the bike??
I’m 6’-4" and 175# (BMI ~21.5 - so fairly skinny) and I always hear “you must be a good climber because you’re so skinny”. I’m not a bad climber and can keep up with a lot of shorter “sprites” but the W/kg math just doesn’t seem to favor a tall person, so is there an innate advantage to being tall?
Why would being tall and 175# be a bigger advantage than being say 5’-9" and 175#? Am I wrong thinking that weight is weight and it should all be equal?
Human aerobic capacity scales sort of linearly with height. So, being taller will tend to make you more powerful, all else being equal.
However it also makes you heavier, and makes you have more wind resistance.
So, generally being tall or short makes little difference when climbing. A tall skinny person tends to climb as well as a short skinny person.
There are little devils in the details but what makes you good at climbing is high power and low weight and being tall doesn’t prevent that. The Schlecks are ~6’1" for instance.
Reading the other hill thread made me think of this this morning: Is there (or not?) an advantage to being tall and skinny vs. shorter and stouter (assume weight is equal) when climbing hills on the bike??
I’m 6’-4" and 175# (BMI ~21.5 - so fairly skinny) and I always hear “you must be a good climber because you’re so skinny”. I’m not a bad climber and can keep up with a lot of shorter “sprites” but the W/kg math just doesn’t seem to favor a tall person, so is there an innate advantage to being tall?
Why would being tall and 175# be a bigger advantage than being say 5’-9" and 175#? Am I wrong thinking that weight is weight and it should all be equal?
Well, 5’9" 175 is not long skinny. Its’ not fat, but not lean. 6’4" 175 is lean, but not super lean like an elite athlete.
As mentioned taller allows you top make more power, but at the cost of increased wind drag. Plus, as triathletes, we have to run afterwards and above 6’0,l it seems like you running economy and power ot weight ratio starts to suffer comparatively. Taller however seems to favor swimmers since in the prone position, the increase in drag is minimal, power output goes up and storke lenght increases making you more efficient.
To make the most of being 6’4", you probably need to be really lean, around 165-170 if you can maintain that safely without losing power (ever person is different).
Good points - I guess being “skinny” at 6’-4" and 175 is compared to the general population. I’m afraid I’m not (and never intend to be) an elite athlete, so I’ll take a little extra weight to look more normal
Now to add on to these responses - why can a taller person generate more power on a bike than a shorter person? Is there a mechanical advantage to longer legs or as another response mentioned there is just some extra aerobic capacity due to scaling up of everything (lungs, heart, etc)?
And I can relate to the running part - typical tri this year has been MOP swim (due to lack of training, goal is to work on that over the winter), FOP mtn bike, and FOMOP (or BOFOP) run getting passed by all those dang sub 6’ speedster
One of the many cycling books that I read offered up a guideline for being a strong climber in the pro peleton. I am pretty sure the height to weight ratio was in the range of 2 - 2.2 lbs per inch of height.
In your case, that would imply a weight of 152 - 167 lbs. So, you would have to lose another 8 lbs. to be at the upper end of the range. Do you think you would be an even better climber without 8 lbs.?
Because aerobic engine size scales sort-of-linearaly with height.
human genetics work out like that so tall people don’t fall over trying to climb stairs.
there is no mechanical advantage.
Good points - I guess being “skinny” at 6’-4" and 175 is compared to the general population. I’m afraid I’m not (and never intend to be) an elite athlete, so I’ll take a little extra weight to look more normal
Now to add on to these responses - why can a taller person generate more power on a bike than a shorter person? Is there a mechanical advantage to longer legs or as another response mentioned there is just some extra aerobic capacity due to scaling up of everything (lungs, heart, etc)?
And I can relate to the running part - typical tri this year has been MOP swim (due to lack of training, goal is to work on that over the winter), FOP mtn bike, and FOMOP (or BOFOP) run getting passed by all those dang sub 6’ speedster
Good points - I guess being “skinny” at 6’-4" and 175 is compared to the general population. I’m afraid I’m not (and never intend to be) an elite athlete, so I’ll take a little extra weight to look more normal
Now to add on to these responses - why can a taller person generate more power on a bike than a shorter person? Is there a mechanical advantage to longer legs or as another response mentioned there is just some extra aerobic capacity due to scaling up of everything (lungs, heart, etc)?
And I can relate to the running part - typical tri this year has been MOP swim (due to lack of training, goal is to work on that over the winter), FOP mtn bike, and FOMOP (or BOFOP) run getting passed by all those dang sub 6’ speedster
Depends on you defnition of “elite”. Have you really looked at your training volume and in particular quality and how your managing recovery? I was always good, but never thought I’d be a solid FOP athlete until I really stepped up my training in both volume and quality. I droppped almost 60 minutes from my first 70.3 6 years ago to this year and hope to drop another 7-8 minutes next year.
I agree with the “compared to general population” statement. Whever someone sees me eating a salad instead of stuffing a burger down my face, they are like “you don;t look like you need ot be on a diet”. My response is usually the same every time. I just point my finger for dramatic effect and say “exactly!”. If they want me to elaborate… I’ll tell them that I was up to 205lbs at one time just 4 years ago. This is how you you eat to drop 45lbs and not gain it back.
I think there are so many variables involved. If you take an ‘all else being equal’ approach, the shorter guy wouldn’t weigh the same and you would likely climb the same speed.
Historically the best climbers in the world are shorter guys. Maybe they are genetic freaks who have the aerobic capacity of taller guys and much lower weight. Maybe the power to weight ratio doesn’t scale linearly and they get a slight advantage?
In the general riding population, climbing is about fitness and power to weight ratio. If you are a stronger rider, you will climb better than a shorter guy.
I’m curious about this, anyone done an analysis/study? Seems like there should be some effect at least from the ratio of lower to upper leg length on power to the pedals.
Why?
Bikes have gears, you can select whatever mechanical advantage you want.
Is there a mechanical advantage to longer legs
I’m curious about this, anyone done an analysis/study? Seems like there should be some effect at least from the ratio of lower to upper leg length on power to the pedals.
Why?
Bikes have gears, you can select whatever mechanical advantage you want.
Is there a mechanical advantage to longer legs
I’m curious about this, anyone done an analysis/study? Seems like there should be some effect at least from the ratio of lower to upper leg length on power to the pedals.
Think about my question this way; everything else being equal, could you push a bigger gear if your legs were proportioned differently.
you might push a bigger gear but you would push it slower.
there is no free power in leverage. Where power is defined as the actual thing in physics with joules per unit of time.
Why?
Bikes have gears, you can select whatever mechanical advantage you want.
Is there a mechanical advantage to longer legs
I’m curious about this, anyone done an analysis/study? Seems like there should be some effect at least from the ratio of lower to upper leg length on power to the pedals.
Think about my question this way; everything else being equal, could you push a bigger gear if your legs were proportioned differently.
you might push a bigger gear but you would push it slower.
there is no free power in leverage. Where power is defined as the actual thing in physics with joules per unit of time.
Why?
Bikes have gears, you can select whatever mechanical advantage you want.
Is there a mechanical advantage to longer legs
I’m curious about this, anyone done an analysis/study? Seems like there should be some effect at least from the ratio of lower to upper leg length on power to the pedals.
Think about my question this way; everything else being equal, could you push a bigger gear if your legs were proportioned differently.
If you want FREE POWER - you need simply get some PC’s for your bike.
/ pink.
I may be misremembering my HS physics, but wouldn’t a longer lever arm (your leg) allow you to generate more torque with the same amount of force? So if that’s correct (which it may or may not be!), then for constant gearing, the person with longer legs would be able to generate a specific torque with lower force (as measured at the pedal or crank) than someone with shorter legs. If the two people actually are able to generate the same force, then the person with longer legs would be generating more torque (and doing more work) than the person with shorter legs.
short version - long levers can let you produce more torque, but not more power because angular velocity will decrease
I may be misremembering my HS physics, but wouldn’t a longer lever arm (your leg) allow you to generate more torque with the same amount of force? So if that’s correct (which it may or may not be!), then for constant gearing, the person with longer legs would be able to generate a specific torque with lower force (as measured at the pedal or crank) than someone with shorter legs. If the two people actually are able to generate the same force, then the person with longer legs would be generating more torque (and doing more work) than the person with shorter legs.
