My heat/dehydration related cramps in long events ie., IM, are almost always in the Adductors or inner thighs. I am curious apart form lack of sodium, potassium, Cal and Mag, what might contribute either Bio Mechanically or Bio Chemically? Excercises/strengthening in addition to nutrtional considerations?
My heat/dehydration related cramps in long events ie., IM, are almost always in the Adductors or inner thighs. I am curious apart form lack of sodium, potassium, Cal and Mag, what might contribute either Bio Mechanically or Bio Chemically? Excercises/strengthening in addition to nutrtional considerations?
I usually get them most when I am doing high cadence work, maybe you are spinning more in races than training?
John
Possibly, although the cramps I get are only on the run. I especially get them in hot humid conditions and on hilly courses. Again, just Adductors, mostly left side.
BTW: Anybody buying this from S caps’ Succeed website?
**What about magnesium? **“Magnesium is another intracellular ion that, like
potassium, is lost in sweat and urine during exercise. But the losses are trivial.
There is no published evidence showing that magnesium deficiency is either common
amongst the physically active, or that magnesium supplementation can either increase
the intracellular magnesium stores, or enhance performance.”
Dr. Timothy Noakes Sports Nutrition: Fluid, Electrolytes, and Minerals (Report from
the World Forum on Physical Activity and Sport, Quebec City, Canada, 1995.)
I’ve heard adductors overwork when the quads are weak (relatively). Assuming you’re talking about running cramps after riding (and not stand alone runs), then it could be the adductors compensating for weaker quads on the bike (hills? power?) but you don’t really feel them until you get off the bike and start running.
This happened to me at NYC, I could barely move for the first 1-2 miles of the run even though they felt “fine” on the bike. But it was clearly from them being overused on the bike (I was in a new position and the quads just weren’t ready to work so hard).
that’s my thought too. Have you tried adding adductor and other hip specific exercises into your core routine?
that’s my thought too. Have you tried adding adductor and other hip specific exercises into your core routine?
Yes and no. Sort of haphazardly. Any specifiic suggestions?
This is what I have been doing and it seems to be fixing my hip issues:
These are all each leg:
3x2min balance on (half) bossu ball
10x5s One leg bridge (http://www.sparkpeople.com/resource/exercises.asp?exercise=154)
10x5s one arm one leg plank - start in plank position. Raise leg and opposite arm (ie left leg, right arm) off the ground and balance.
2x15 hip lift
20x forward leg lift
20x straight leg lift
20x back leg lift
20s leg circles - large
20s leg circles - small
20x skate - lie on side with bottom leg straight. Pull top knee towards your chest. You are going to touch that knee to the ground, then straighten the leg back and up (like you were pushing off while skating)
The leg lifts should be self explanatory. Lie on your side with your legs straight and lift with the hip. forward is with your leg extending forward. Straight is with your top leg parallel to your bottom leg and back is with your leg behind you. I do the lifts, circles and skates as a single set without resting.
I do this routine 3x a week plus 500 or more yards/meters of kicking in the pool at least 3x a week (usually 4 to 5). Flutter kick is great for the hip flexors and whip kick build up your add/abductors.
I have got them in my last 3 Ironmans. About 85-90 miles things start really tightening up. I think it is the vastus medialis that is cramping. After being a moderately strong biker (5:30 CDA and 5:45 LP) I put in extra work on the bike and weight room and ended up becoming slower because of having to nurse the final hour and coast into T2. Never bothers me on the run.
I think it is a position issue–too high of seat or to far foward? Anyone else have a solution to try?
I don’t know if you’ve thought of this but I had some adductor trouble which was due to my shoes being canted out. I never even thought about it until I happened to be watching John Cobb fit someone who had a similar problem and all he did was put a shim under the cleat with the thick edge out. It basically allowed my legs to sit closer to the top tube without me having to hold them there. My pain wasn’t showing up until about an hour to an hour and a half into my long rides. I haven’t had any trouble with them since. Worth a shot anyway.
I would like to send this one around again. I am still bothered by these inner thigh cramps (adductors?). It occurs AFTER cycling more than 4 hours. I will be laying around after a longish ride and bang (!) if I bend the leg(S) from a seated or lying position I can go in to a really nasty cramping episode. Trying Magnesium/ Calcium/ Pottasium/ Sodium to see if it’s bio chemical. It may however, be muscular weakness and overload. Also, changing form Road to Tri position or the other way around in my training. It has crippled me before in IM’s where my run gets stopped in its tracks due to these cramps. I’d like to get this sorted out before I think about racing again.
Thoughts?
I would like to send this one around again. I am still bothered by these inner thigh cramps (adductors?). It occurs AFTER cycling more than 4 hours. I will be laying around after a longish ride and bang (!) if I bend the leg(S) from a seated or lying position I can go in to a really nasty cramping episode. Trying Magnesium/ Calcium/ Pottasium/ Sodium to see if it’s bio chemical. It may however, be muscular weakness and overload. Also, changing form Road to Tri position or the other way around in my training. It has crippled me before in IM’s where my run gets stopped in its tracks due to these cramps. I’d like to get this sorted out before I think about racing again.
Thoughts?
It’s due to ALL of the above: bio chemical and extreme muscular overload. Unfortunately, I have intimate knowledge of this condition because I too share the same problem. In races with lots of climbing it occurs with predictability. At Ironman France, in both 2008 and 2009, I was stricken by the identical intense abductor cramps at the top of the 3800 foot climb of Col de l’Ecre. I have also had this occur doing hill repeats on Bear Mountain in New York and while doing multiple canyon ascents in the Santa Monica Mountains. To mitigate, the best precautions are increased training loads and lots and lots of salt tabs…specifically, you need sodium. Magnesium and calcium interrupt the synaptic flow that causes the onset of the cramps; however, the mineral load required to make permanent such disruption is probably toxic! Therefore, salt is your best solution. I take 4 “salt stick” tabs per hour, particularly in hot temps. This is 1 tab every 15 mins. This equates to 860 mg of Sodium per hour. You can probably push this to a whole gram. Also, it is very important during the course of your ride to stay nearly fully hydrated…with H20…not counting your liquid nutrition (if that’s how you take it in). This is means you’re going to peeing in your saddle if you’re really concerned with your time. Experiment first on your training rides before swallowing so much salt during a race b/c this is way over the recommended dosing amounts. That said, I have the very SAME issue with my abductors and this product (Salt Stick Tabs) at the aforementioned dosing amount usually works for me except under the most extreme circumstances…like hill repeats up Mount Washington. This next piece of advice is also important: continue with the salt and hydration for a few hours AFTER your ride, too, but in more moderated amounts; otherwise, you may wind up wind some real killer cramps popping up on you out of nowhere, especially when you’re reclining or off feet. Ouch! Here’s the good news > once the cramps occur, though excruciatingly painful, they usually stop once the muscles release all of their pent up tension…and they are unlikely to return for a good long while. Sort of like the fault line in an earthquake zone. Fortunately, this condition afflicts only a small minority of cyclists and triathletes. Notwithstanding, it has given me a profound amount of sympathy women during childbirth. Good luck, dude.
Chipster, I appreciate the feedback. A couple reactions; I ONLY get these cramps AFTER the bike, never during. On the run, or after a hard training ride stretching or activating the adductor in a bending inward motion. I am postulating that Salt alone is not my issue. I took plenty last summer at IMC and still cramped severely after 13 miles of the run. I am experimenting with Cal/Mag and potasium to good end. I think the combination of these three may be working for me. I also need to train harder and longer on hilly and hot days. But, I’m encourgaed, despite the science, that Cal/Mag and P are doing me a lot of good. I think I will take all three plus Salt in my next IM. By the way, I’ve not encountered this in a Half, even on very hot days. It’s duration and prolonged fatiguing events (ie. IM) that bring it on. Or curiously, A hard hilly trainig ride. I have not experienced it on long runs alone either.
Good points and advice.
I will add though that naturally , there will be an increased occurence of this condition , pending the climate you are racing in.
I had adductor cramping during IM Malaysia 2007. I attribute it primarily to:
- insufficient electrolytes in my system. Primarily sodium.
- incorrect pacing on the bike.
I was taking 700mg’s of sodium per hour and at 69-70kg’s which for me personally , was insufficient. I perspire at roughly 2.0-2.5L per hour.
Since then , I have worked out that my sodium requirements per hour are 1000-1200mg’s.
With better pacing I have not had this condition return , except during a 210km long ride with a roadie , 3 weeks afetr IMMY 2007.
Cheers,
Terry
Chipster, I appreciate the feedback. A couple reactions; I ONLY get these cramps AFTER the bike, never during. On the run, or after a hard training ride stretching or activating the adductor in a bending inward motion. I am postulating that Salt alone is not my issue. I took plenty last summer at IMC and still cramped severely after 13 miles of the run. I am experimenting with Cal/Mag and potasium to good end. I think the combination of these three may be working for me. I also need to train harder and longer on hilly and hot days. But, I’m encourgaed, despite the science, that Cal/Mag and P are doing me a lot of good. I think I will take all three plus Salt in my next IM. By the way, I’ve not encountered this in a Half, even on very hot days. It’s duration and prolonged fatiguing events (ie. IM) that bring it on. Or curiously, A hard hilly trainig ride. I have not experienced it on long runs alone either.
Regardless of when this occurs (run or bike), you are obviously NOT taking in enough sodium or water or both. Quantify exactly how many mg of sodium you’re taking and then jack it up to 1000 mg/hour. See if that helps. I suspect it will. As I said, the Cal/Mag is good but it will be the elevated NaCl intake that is most effective. Btw, when you measure your sodium intake note that you are NOT measuring the salt per se (NaCl)…you’re measuring just the NA (sodium). Accordingly, the mg/hr dosing relates to sodium only, which is ingested in the form of salt.
I would like to send this one around again. I am still bothered by these inner thigh cramps (adductors?). It occurs AFTER cycling more than 4 hours. I will be laying around after a longish ride and bang (!) if I bend the leg(S) from a seated or lying position I can go in to a really nasty cramping episode. Trying Magnesium/ Calcium/ Pottasium/ Sodium to see if it’s bio chemical. It may however, be muscular weakness and overload. Also, changing form Road to Tri position or the other way around in my training. It has crippled me before in IM’s where my run gets stopped in its tracks due to these cramps. I’d like to get this sorted out before I think about racing again.
Thoughts?
OK, everything old is new again. I had the same experience after riding 100 mi on Sat. I did the first 50 at ludicrous speed with a fast group, then the second 50 at a steadier tempo pace. Temps were in the 60’s, so cooling was not a problem. Drank Gatorade/Powerade throughout the ride, and had to stop to urinate a few times. I also drank a chocolate milk during the ride for extra elecrolytes. No sign of cramping on the ride and just general fatigue when I got home. I drank 1L of water and ate dinner. Then sitting on the couch after dinner, I moved my leg and bang, one adductor cramped up and when I got up to try to stretch it out the other one cramped too. Had to hobble to the kitchen bow-legged to get some pickle juice, and then it passed quickly.
I seem to be prone to cramping during and especially after long rides. And the cramping usually starts in the adductors. Still trying to figure out how to deal with this. I see recommendations from massive doses of sodium to shims. More thoughts?
Hello bigdog and All,
I get them on the bike on long rides if I am not careful to include the adductor weight machine exercises at the gym.
The adductor weight machine not only strengthens the muscles it stretches the muscle and that seems to help too.
Cheers,
Neal
I get them towards the end of a marathon if I fail to take any salt. Salt stick tablets work magic for me.
My heat/dehydration related cramps in long events ie., IM, are almost always in the Adductors or inner thighs. I am curious apart form lack of sodium, potassium, Cal and Mag, what might contribute either Bio Mechanically or Bio Chemically? Excercises/strengthening in addition to nutrtional considerations?
If your cramps are related to being dehydrated or deficient in Na, K, Mg or Ca then why is it only affecting specific muscles? If these things were happening all skeletal muscle should be similarly affected & it’s not. There are a number of papers that have examined serum electrolyte concentrations & hydration status between cramping & non-cramping athletes in marathons, ultra-marathons & Ironman triathlons. All found that there was no significant difference for most of the variables between crampers & non-crampers. If there was a significant difference then all values were still within clinically normal limits.
I don’t know how long how have competed in endurance sport but I used to experience severe adductor cramps when I startyed cycling. I always got them in the middle of the night, never while I was exercising or soon afterwards. As I got better conditioned & did more cycling the cramps went away.
A good number of people on here will tell you tell take ridiculous amounts of sodium. It isn’t necessary. Having said that a lot of them will now rant & rave about how it saved their race & that they are heavy sweaters. You can do what you like in regards to nutritional supplementation & observe what happens but I’m quietly confident that unless you are deficient in something, which is unlikely in an endurance athlete with a varied diet, whatever you take isn’t going to solve your problem.
I did my Master’s thesis on exercise associated muscle cramp so I have read extensively on this condition. I was examining the effect of fatigue on cramp & it appears that this is not why cramp occurs either. The short version is we don’t really know why cramp occurs.
It could be a muscle imbalance of any sort. I used to get pain/cramping in that area and later was diagnosed with piriformis syndrome (after a whole lotta other symptoms). Now that the piriformis is better and all my other muscles are firing like they should I don’t get any pain/cramping in the adductor area.
Think about trying to isolate the adductor. What other muscles do you use? Make sure those are lose by rolling etc and working properly and you probably won’t over work the adductor anymore.
I get them on the bike on long rides if I am not careful to include the adductor weight machine exercises at the gym.
Did that really make a difference for you? I tried doing that once a week for 10 weeks, but it did not make any difference I could notice. I would do 3 sets of 10 alternating between adductor and abductor at a weight I could just tolerate.