A strange shimano question for bike industry types

Triathlon Forum
1

A lot of dealers and mail order places online have a full line of full shimano road components. And a lot of them still sell Dura Ace 1" threaded headsets.

Who in the heck buys these things? How many are selling? It can’t be a lot, can it? Threaded headsets are obviously going the way of the dinosaur.

My questions are: why do shops and online places still carry them when they must sell very, very, slowly, if at all? (Why does shimano still make 'em?). These headsets seem to be listed for sale in many, many places and yet I can’t imagine that they are running out the door.

What gives?

2

Some retailers don’t understand the meaning of “lean and mean”.

Inventory is evil. It begins depriciating the second it comes in the door. They just buy too much crap. Technology in the industry changes so quickly you can’t afford to be stuck with anyting old- it is worthless.

Sometimes I tell vendors, “Hey, I’m not running a bike museum- it is about turn and burn…”

3

Sure Tom, you just want us to have to sell our old bikes to the scrap metal dealer and buy a new one from you.

4

I am not sure but I remember a while ago reading that there is no shimano road threadless headset… why I am not sure… that article also mentioned that that was the reason that Lance uses a XTR headset to honot his shimano contract…

Hey if no one buys them and they come with a gruppo people are going to have them right?

5

Lance uses a Chris King I think.

Does XTR even have a threadless headset of any size? I don’t think so.

But why in the heck does shimano even make the goofy things? (the 1" DA threaded headsets)

If you just ate antipasta, would you lose mass?

6

it is generally held that the reason there is no shimano road threadless headset is due to japanese cultural corporate pride. the “aheadset” beat them to the punch, and they mistook just how successful it would be. with their cards on the table, when it went the other way their pride would not let them go back. in many ways, ya gotta admire that, i think. it certainly cost them dearly not only in headset sales, but in opening the door to the floodgates we see today in cranks, brakes, you name it. not to mention the lawsuits as a result of the subsequent bulying tactics on complete groups/bikes, etc. you have to wonder, if they had it to do over, would they do the same? i would maybe say no.

oh, and not everybody throws their bike away because it a few years old. come to think of it, not every BUYS bikes intended to thrown away, but i digress. anyway, there will alaways be a market for a hi quality threaded headset - maybe just not a slam bam big mass market one.

7

I am a bad man.

8

I gotta say that a nice custom steel bike looks so perfect with a matching threaded stem…

9

greg ( inexplicably) asks “But why in the heck does shimano even make the goofy things? (the 1” DA threaded headsets) "

dude. imagine this - campy makes them too !! and . . . . . . . . numerous other people. they quite remarkably fit into bikes with threaded forks, like they made for around a hundred years or so, right up to - today, in numerous cases - believe it or not. they question is, why would they NOT make one.

kids these freaking days, i swear.

10

As for the use of the 1" threaded headset…I still use one! In fact I just built a brand new Zipp 2001 with a 1" threaded headset. As far as I’m concerned these is nothing wrong with a threaded headset. In fact they have some pro’s over the threadless as far as I’m concerned. So for some of us people, we still wish to purchase…as you say…“dinosaur” parts.

11

indeed. a little history lesson, in light of some of some of the above:

looking back, it might not be so clear as to how ANYBODY could not have seen the threadless style taking off like it it did. if you were there, it was a very different story, and not at all an unreasonbale view, as evidenced by no less than shimano missing the guess.

to wit: many of the “advantages” in the threadless design were not actually PRESENT, at the start. the original threadless headsets had very few, if any, real advantages over threaded designs save one.

threadless headsets cut down OEM maunfacturing costs significantly. machines can assemble them, and people have to assemble threaded headsets. for this reason and no real other, the threadless design took off like it did. it was also fueled in part - tho much less so than the money/OEM aspect- by the mountain bike boom, and the craze in that niche for the new, beefy, tig welded stems that came on the threadless bikes. the road market actually held out for a time, but then was swept under ( road bikes were horribly passe, and mtn bikes ruled in these days . . . ), even tho the threadless design still held very little or no advantages at all for riders, and numerous disadvantages.

that all changed with the advent of the carbon steerer fork. suddenly, there was a siginificant advantage in weight to the threadless design - not from the headset, but from the carbon steerer forks they allowed ( you cannot make a threaded caron fork). that was it. with the upper end of the market cemented by all carbon forks turning inside threadless headsets the new standard became utterly unasailable. later developements, like the faceplate stem allowing fast and easy bar changes COULD have developed with quill style stems, but they didn’t and too bad for quills.

anyway - as noted if you are not really all that concerned about a few grams, a threaded headset still does offer as many advantages as a threadless, if you are so inclined. many hi -end makers and consumers still are.

we now return you to your regularly scheduled forum, thank you for coming today, there wil be a quiz in the morning.

12

Granted, threadless and 1 1/8 have become defacto standards, but there is still a hard-core cadre of old school enthusiasts out there in roadie-ville. The DA threaded headset is still widely regarded as one of the best, perhaps every bit as good as King’s (and for a lot fewer smackers). If you spend some time nosing around RBR and Bike Fan Club, you’ll note that there are people who still favor either all or some of the older componentry offerings, from threaded headsets to freewheels to downtube shifters. (And there are even total nut-jobs like me who still drool over late-model Suntour stuff.)

My guess would be that the abundance of DA threaded heasets is due in part to the ever-burgeoning growth of threadless 1 1/8 systems that are becomming common. Retailers bought the older stock, and now they’re trying to get rid of it. That bodes well for those of us who appreciate the classic technologies. And for those of you who are completely smitten with the new stuff; you win too–there’s an abundance of new-fangled gear out there (yes, I use that stuff too).

It’s win win and not really worth the concern.

13

Hey, I own a few of the goofy things: they’re on an old kestrel 200sci and on a quite old steel pinarello.

But what I don’t understand is why NOW they are still making them (somewhat but not easily understandable) or why so many high volume online “lean and mean” retailers seem to stock them (not easily understandable). It seems that a customer has to special order a lot of other good stuff (that DOES sell well), but the darn headsets are in stock!

I mean how many people these days are building up brand new bike frames with threaded headsets? Admittedly some, but it can’t be that many. Does shimano have some contract that any online shop that carries D.A. 10-speed also has to stock the headsets?!?

ps. this “kid” (kids these freaking days, i swear) raced his first tri in 1984.

14

greg asks: "But what I don’t understand is why NOW they are still making them "

greg. headsets wear out. your pinarallo and kestrel will eventually brinnel theirs. at that time, you will call one of those retailers and presto get a new one. i do not get your question. why WOULDN’T they make them, and stock them, if there are millions of bicycles out there wearing them out everyday?

15

Still, here in San Diego I see a lot of new high end bikes built with threaded headsets–a lot of people simply like them given the vert. adjustability and the general aesthetics. …Thus, the Shimano, Campy and Kings that are still made in apparent sufficient numbers to justify their continued production.

The corresponding stems, however, are getting harder to find, particularly those that have more aesthetic values (Cinelli Gammo, old Salsa, etc).