Why do people who are fans of Frodeno turn so nasty when you disagree who is the goat? New the sport big fan of KB.
Isn’t Dave Scott the Goat? Mark Allen?
I’m just not seeing how is JF when others have done what he’s done and more? Please explain I’m trying to understand
Feeling the need for a little Wednesday troll action?
Feeling the need for a little Wednesday troll action?
No please reread the post. Thank you for your contribution
Frodeno was a multi-time world champion across multiple distances in one of the most competitive eras of triathlon. KB/GI are continuations of that, but he’s still the standard. Four professional seasons (per PTO’s own database) where JF went undefeated. Over a ten year period, Frodeno won 74% of the races he entered, and on the podium 84% of the time. Those other results are two DNFs, two World Championships where he was less than 100% but finished (one in Nice, one in Hawaii), and two fourth places this year.
That’s the data.
Why do people who are fans of Frodeno turn so nasty when you disagree who is the goat? New the sport big fan of KB.
Isn’t Dave Scott the Goat? Mark Allen?
I’m just not seeing how is JF when others have done what he’s done and more? Please explain I’m trying to understand
To start with, triathlon is more than Ironman, at least for a lot of people. An Olympic title is regarded very highly and Scott and Allen never won it. Frodeno did. I think it’s harder to win both one Olympic title and one Ironman WC than it is to win 6 Ironman WC’s. But then again, I have zero authority to back this statement up 
Why do people who are fans of Frodeno turn so nasty when you disagree who is the goat? New the sport big fan of KB.
Isn’t Dave Scott the Goat? Mark Allen?
I’m just not seeing how is JF when others have done what he’s done and more? Please explain I’m trying to understand
Another failed Turing test. Back to the drawing board.
Frodeno was a multi-time world champion across multiple distances in one of the most competitive eras of triathlon. KB/GI are continuations of that, but he’s still the standard. Four professional seasons (per PTO’s own database) where JF went undefeated. Over a ten year period, Frodeno won 74% of the races he entered, and on the podium 84% of the time. Those other results are two DNFs, two World Championships where he was less than 100% but finished (one in Nice, one in Hawaii), and two fourth places this year.
That’s the data.
Mark Allen won Nice 10 straight times, Kona six times, five straight. 89-91 20 straight wins across all distances including the first World Championship.
Feeling the need for a little Wednesday troll action?
No please reread the post. Thank you for your contribution
Oh, no, it’s all good. A troll thread about who’s the GOAT isn’t a bad thing!
I can’t contribute much. I’m vaguely aware that Frodeno is a triathlete, and I couldn’t name any of the Kona winners of the last 10 years, except I assume Frodeno has been one?
Who cares, I’m on team Frodeno. He’s obviously the best, anyone who says otherwise is an idiot and I get so angry when anyone says otherwise!
Why do people who are fans of Frodeno turn so nasty when you disagree who is the goat? New the sport big fan of KB.
Isn’t Dave Scott the Goat? Mark Allen?
I’m just not seeing how is JF when others have done what he’s done and more? Please explain I’m trying to understand
To start with, triathlon is more than Ironman, at least for a lot of people. An Olympic title is regarded very highly and Scott and Allen never won it. Frodeno did. I think it’s harder to win both one Olympic title and one Ironman WC than it is to win 6 Ironman WC’s. But then again, I have zero authority to back this statement up
Scott and Allen never had the chance to race an OG triathlon unfortunately, the inclusion came too late. But Allen did win the OD world championship the same year he won his first Hawaii and that’s quite the achievement.
If I was a groupie, Frodeno and Allen would probably be my two equal heroes, but I’m not a big fan of that GOAT debate. How is it fair to compare different eras?
Why do people who are fans of Frodeno turn so nasty when you disagree who is the goat? New the sport big fan of KB.
Isn’t Dave Scott the Goat? Mark Allen?
I’m just not seeing how is JF when others have done what he’s done and more? Please explain I’m trying to understand
To start with, triathlon is more than Ironman, at least for a lot of people. An Olympic title is regarded very highly and Scott and Allen never won it. Frodeno did. I think it’s harder to win both one Olympic title and one Ironman WC than it is to win 6 Ironman WC’s. But then again, I have zero authority to back this statement up
Scott and Allen never had the chance to race an OG triathlon unfortunately, the inclusion came too late. But Allen did win the OD world championship the same year he won his first Hawaii and that’s quite the achievement.
If I was a groupie, Frodeno and Allen would probably be my two equal heroes, but I’m not a big fan of that GOAT debate. How is it fair to compare different eras?
Yeah, not possible imo.
Why do people who are fans of Frodeno turn so nasty when you disagree who is the goat? New the sport big fan of KB.
Isn’t Dave Scott the Goat? Mark Allen?
I’m just not seeing how is JF when others have done what he’s done and more? Please explain I’m trying to understand
To start with, triathlon is more than Ironman, at least for a lot of people. An Olympic title is regarded very highly and Scott and Allen never won it. Frodeno did. I think it’s harder to win both one Olympic title and one Ironman WC than it is to win 6 Ironman WC’s. But then again, I have zero authority to back this statement up
Scott and Allen never had the chance to race an OG triathlon unfortunately, the inclusion came too late. But Allen did win the OD world championship the same year he won his first Hawaii and that’s quite the achievement.
If I was a groupie, Frodeno and Allen would probably be my two equal heroes, but I’m not a big fan of that GOAT debate. How is it fair to compare different eras?
You almost have to compare the “GOAT” of the different eras…Olympics were not an option in tri during the Dave/Mark era, but Mark being the first EVER World Champion of the ITU…and yet, Dave beat Mark every damn time at Kona until the last meeting–where even adding “age grading” Dave still kicked his but. However, that doesn’t really matter in a championship race. Take time improvements due to equipment, variables such a position and nutrition of the eras, and increased competition…it’s hard to say how they would have survived in results today. We know the numbers in the sport were less back then and tri as a profession was not as widespread as it is today, and the incentives or payouts are better now. But as I said, Mark is NOT the best in Kona over Dave–he lost every time but one–and Dave was already possibly past his age peak but certainly trained better for the “Iron War” so it was his fastest. Even then, weather may have been the speed factor for those times as well.
On to short course…you have Gomez and AB who certainly did some amazing streaks of racing, Jan as well. There may be a couple others…back in the day the Big Four ruled about every race they did. Can’t discount their domination–but again, they were about it aside from Mike Pigg & maybe a couple others. Possibly Steve Fleck can shed some light on that era a bit better–I’m too young to have been in the thick of all that in its heyday (not calling you “old” Fleck, just you were in the thick of that era). Do we measure by Kona? No. Olympics or years unbeaten? No. The GOAT will always be changing titles as time goes on. There is a subjective aspect to that title–nobody is the authority on what qualifies it. Debate is probably irrelevant when you look at the 80’s, 90’s, 2000+ with so much changing in the sport. KB could be tossed in there as well for consideration of top all timers…but Jan also smashed him (regardles of leg cramp issues–it’s still a race)…at the US PTO with Jan being much older…so…who is to say? The measuring stick is never the same on the debate scale…
IF KB can race for the next 3 years at the top he will take the goat status from Mark, Dave, AB, and Jan. That’s a big IF.
We’ll see how the new blood from ITU comes in over the next few years. We’ll see how KB holds up this Olympics. If he takes the gold, I’d put him ahead of AB, even though AB had such a strong period of domination in how he raced every race. If he takes the gold and then can add in another 70.3 worlds wins and a kona win? I’d put him at least equal or above Jan.
So can KB rack up another gold, 70.3 and IM worlds championship? It’s fascinating I’m not really factoring PTO races in this. I think Jan’s win and KB’s win/solid placing in his PTO races pretty much equal each other out. Right now Jan has the goat status. It’s up to KB to take the throne.
Pfft! None of those guys have their own,all encompassing thread on ST…
If the term GOAT were to be always prefaced with just 2 words, we could restore peace and harmony to all the lands.
Oh yeah. those 2 words
“my favourite”
You are all wrong.
The GOAT is clearly Chrissie Wellington.
Frodeno was a multi-time world champion across multiple distances in one of the most competitive eras of triathlon. KB/GI are continuations of that, but he’s still the standard. Four professional seasons (per PTO’s own database) where JF went undefeated. Over a ten year period, Frodeno won 74% of the races he entered, and on the podium 84% of the time. Those other results are two DNFs, two World Championships where he was less than 100% but finished (one in Nice, one in Hawaii), and two fourth places this year.
That’s the data.
That’s not the data. You’ve been massively selective and ignored his ITU career completely, which lasted longer than his long course career.
ITU he has 3 wins and 18 podiums from 68 starts. KB has a whopping 35 podiums and 18 wins from 97 starts.
That’s the “data”.
Lets not brush over the fact that an Olympic medal is probably harder to win.
For every 1 Olympic champion, there are 4 Ironman World Champions (every year vs every 4 years).
You have to be selected by your country to compete in the Olympics. There can be a bunch of people from your country who are pro’s going for Ironman World Champion.
Michellie Jones and PNF are in the parking lot and would like a word about your exclusionary list for GOAT.
Pfft! None of those guys have their own,all encompassing thread on ST…
Maybe it’s just me but it seems like you can’t help yourself and insert Lionel into every conversation. You also did it in the Gwen thread, and I’ve seen others too.
Now back to the topic in hand: Jan is GOAT. I am not a Jan fan but I can totally admit he is the GOAT.
Frodeno was a multi-time world champion across multiple distances in one of the most competitive eras of triathlon. KB/GI are continuations of that, but he’s still the standard. Four professional seasons (per PTO’s own database) where JF went undefeated. Over a ten year period, Frodeno won 74% of the races he entered, and on the podium 84% of the time. Those other results are two DNFs, two World Championships where he was less than 100% but finished (one in Nice, one in Hawaii), and two fourth places this year.
That’s the data.
That’s not the data. You’ve been massively selective and ignored his ITU career completely, which lasted longer than his long course career.
ITU he has 3 wins and 18 podiums from 68 starts. KB has a whopping 35 podiums and 18 wins from 97 starts.
That’s the “data”.
rrheisler, what are Allen’s equivalent stats? I’m guessing they are better. The guy would go entire seasons without losing, and it’s hard to find more than a handful of races in his entire career where he was not on the podium.
IMO, on the men’s side it’s not even close.