I just wanted to quickly comment to say 1. I really do the think the V8 saddle is awesome and 2. @Nick_wovebike has truly gone above and beyond to support me in getting on with the saddle, like no other person I could ever imagine. Maybe this will be bad for Nick’s time but I can’t be more grateful for his support and would encourage anyone and everyone to give it a shot - worst case you return it.
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I’ll only try a Wove if he gets back to shit talking around here.
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I don’t think I’ve ever been truly comfortable, at least not since I’ve been riding competitive level events. I have found saddles that are tolerable and figure that’s about the best I can hope for. I would love to give some of these saddles a try but pricing is just beyond what I can justify, especially since I don’t intend anything longer than a sprint after IMAZ.
One other comment that seems to be particular to me, or at least I’m in a very small minority of riders. I really prefer a bit of a nose up angle on my saddles. Actually, “a bit” may be something of an understatement. I’m pretty comfortable with the saddle nose at between 6-8* nose up. I’ve tried it flat and even a little nose down, but always feel like I’m going to fall off the front.
Of course, I chalk some of this up to anatomical differences. I don’t have dangly bits to worry about. But that aside, I still really haven’t found a saddle that I actually feel comfortable on. My Bontrager Aeolus Pro is the most tolerable saddle I’ve found so far.
Other can weigh in, but it’s likely that you saddle tilt and comfort issues are the result of other issues with your bike fit. To take a simple example, no saddle will feel comfortable if the seat height is 3cm too high. A good fitter with tri experience should be able to help with the comfort issues…or at the very least determine if you are a morphological outlier.
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. Actually, “a bit” may be something of an understatement. I’m pretty comfortable with the saddle nose at between 6-8* nose up. I’ve tried it flat and even a little nose down, but always feel like I’m going to fall off the front.
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I’ve never fit anyone that prefers their saddle that far up. 1-2 degrees yes. Yet when bike fitting everyone is unique and what may have worked for 10 won’t work for the 11th person to try it.
It’s posts like these that help expand/ reinforce that at times people have very unique circumstances that require unique solutions
I would wonder though if there were other issues that a saddle tilted up that high was covering for.
No doubt that’s a possibility, but just so far as I’ve been doing this (only the last four or so years) I’ve found this to be the most tolerable position for long distance. I think for me, the reason this works is that the nose of the saddle is putting pressure on my “fat pad” (God, I hate saying that) on the pubic bone. And that could work only because I just haven’t found a saddle that loads the ischeal tuberocities correctly. I’ve tried a bunch, but far from a comprehensive list. I guess I need a legit good bike fit. Sorely disappointed with the one I got here locally.
Another factor that might fit into the “special circumstances” category is that I do have OA in my hips, and this has resulted in osteophytes around the joint. So what should normally be a nice, smooth bony surface is instead all jagged and notchy. So it really isn’t any wonder why I can’t put pressure in that area for any length of time. I figure at some point I’m going to need BL hip replacement and I’m hoping the surgeon can correct it at that time. But I’ll likely be long retired from the amateur triathlon scene by then.
Why not drive to cycllogic for a proper fit?
Such a good post.
For a long time, I had a little lateral rock that I just thought was normal. Then I tried a tad bit wider saddle and instantly I felt like I just “stuck” on the saddle with no wobble
I wish there was some type of easier way to test / try Saddles. I’m not aware of anywhere near me that has lots of options to try / demo. And then, if you need a complete fit to get saddle reco’s, that makes it out of reach for most people
Is there any eComm offering where they mail you some kind of “ fit tool”, you sit on it, and they recommend you 3 saddles? That would be a pretty awesome way to make sale purchasing less intimidating
I would agree with that idea. I would pay a reasonable fee for something that could correctly measure my sit bones and make appropriate suggestions. I know I’ve spent far more money buying one that “looks” like it might fit well only to find it intolerable after about 30 miles.
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Yes it’s pretty amazing that in this day and age with all the bike and health data we can have on a digital watch or on a phone, that no one has figured out a way to help people make an informed saddle choice using technology.
I finished read both Dave Luscan’s book and Phil Burt’s book on bike fitting. I’m going to work on it myself over the winter. There also aren’t any fitters near me. I’m still worried about finding the right or even a pretty close to right saddle.
Hi Nick. OK I am intrigured by your saddle analysis. I used to do long triathlons, but nowadays its long Tme trials, 100mile, 12 hr and even a 24. No matter which distance I feel I have more power when I feel my ‘bum’ pushing against the saddle. I have an ISM PS 2.0 which has been great for years. But want a saddle with longer rails to bring it forward on my Giant Trinity. I looked at your pictures of the Wove v8 vs other saddles that don’t feel right for me and thought “Ah ha - Its the quick curve that supports me.” Then I looked at the pictures of your triathletes and they seem to be sitting on the nose and not even touching the curved part. I have tried that with various saddles and it is just uncomfortable for me.
Channel width: The PS2.0 channel width works for me. The PN 3.0 does not.
Nose width: narrower or wider does not work for me.
Transition: I don’t have thigh rub, but I do like to puish against the saddle.
Am I missing something with your V8?
I would be interested how it can be determined that there was only a single reason for an issue . At the end of the day how do you eliminate the fact that you might have increased your training too much too fast.
IE rarely is training load IE loading too much or too long not part of a stress fracture.
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By providing said training load to the orthopedist, by reviewing my last few series of bloodwork, and narrowing down the possibilities together?
I’m in Canada so I was hoping to get one there to save on duty and shipping costs. Could that happen? I tried to order a few bungees and the shipping cost was almost more than the bungees!
If you’re ever in the Tucson area LMK. I do travel for fittings, probably have done as many on the road as I’ve done here in town over the last year. Those trips are almost always aero testing + bike fitting trips. Need a certain number of people to make it worth my while to travel, unless it’s summer in AZ. Then I’d almost pay to get out of here, almost.
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If shipping is being automatically quoted too high by our POS, We will refund the difference between the actual shipping and the automatically quoted shipping cost. Thank you, and we are always working to get our POS to make better quotes, and we will also have distributors next year in different regions, which will help a lot.
This is a really good topic:
Yes, you can put out higher power numbers pushing back into a saddle, more immediately, and you will feel the engagement of more muscle groups. But, this is a biomechanically inefficient way to pedal, and overtime, you will observe a reduction in performance. This is the reason why the world‘s best cyclists and triathletes apply force to the pedals directly downward on the front side of the pedal stroke, and they roll into their pubis bones on the front of the saddle.
Discussion with Ronan over at Escape Collective that discusses bike fit with regard to saddle positioning, and how that affects the decision for crank length:
link to podcast: Transistor.fm
As for getting comfortable when rotating onto the pubis bones and being more on the nose of the saddle, this requires the saddle being at the right angle, the saddle cover material having the right amount of grip, the rider being in a balanced position over the bottom bracket, and having the front end at the right height and distance so that being on the nose of the saddle is very comfortable. This is also why the channel width is crucially important: rotating more on the nose of the saddle will create more soft tissue pressure, so having the channel wide enough was critical in the design of our saddle. These pro athletes are on the nose of the saddle because that is where they are most efficiently producing power.
Feel free to private message me and I can pretty easily take a look at your current position and provide some quick video analysis feedback.
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Thanks Nick. I had listened (possibly twice) to your Escape Collective discussion. I will get in touch.
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Well again it’s usually never a sole reason and load will always have an impact .
I seem to rember that not that long ago your where almost last in a Nordic skiing race or something so if IAM not totally off there fitness likely was not the best when you started training and you just might not have been ready to do ironman training .
So how far did your orthopedist go back in your training schedule.
Or in short the saddle was the problem but the bigger problem was you not adapting the training or swapping the saddle both aspects could have prevented the issue.
So I see here the issue that you are oversimplying the issue when usually more things are interconnected.