80/20 Endurance Training Plan ongoing review

Triathlon Forum
1

update: I’m d.lebeouf or damon lebeouf on Zwift if you want to follow and check out my workouts

first off i am not paid / affiliated with the 80/20 endurance training guys. i’m an slightly above average MOP (5:15:XX 70.3) guy wanting to get faster. i am paying for their plan out of my own pocket and the only communication ive had directly with anyone was a little assistance getting my account setup with them and a few plan support questions my last race was iroman 70.3 texas (in galveston) and my next is going to be 70.3 in waco.

previously, ive done my own training on my own, just trying to piece together my own plan using the barry p method i found here and cycling plans from trainer road. swim… eh… i get in the pool when i can and on the vasa as time allows. my swim, like many others, is my weakest discipline and its because i have put just enough into it to keep me floating and to T1. i live in an area where there is absolutely zero swim coaching available.

i love the bike leg so ive put all my efforts thus far into the bike, and just smashed myself on the workouts. i do like the TR plans (talk about a sense of accomplishment after a killer VO2 max session), however im not entirely sure they are setup for triathlon. i know they say they are, however their plans left me feeling very drained. after a good hard workout i didnt have anything left in the tank at all, and i was always tired.

i was slow running it with barry p so at least my runs were not killing me too. (barry p ironically enough is based on low intensity and i wound up going from 8:30 pace down to a touch under 8:00 with semi consistent high volume / low intensity running.)

i ran across 80/20, wound up doing a lot of reading and podcast listening as well as talking to others that use the method and decided to give this training method a try. i really was drawn to the low intensity idea which would leave more gas in the tank for life in general, and less possibility of injury. 80/20 endurance has paid training plans you can use that get loaded into training peaks and you just follow the plan. easy peasy. i like this too because i dont have to try and figure out what i should be doing day to day, its already setup for me. i wont get into the nuts and bolts of 80/20 or how they have everything setup, you can read for yourself or ask specific questions and ill answer them here.

i havnt heard them mentioned here so i thought id get a weekly rolling review of the plan im using, their “half ironman level 3” plan.

my setup at home: road bike on the tacx neo, using zwift. treadmill with a treadtracker for speed for zwift or outside neighborhood runs. swim will be done majority of the time on the vasa erg and pool as i have time to go

my setup at my remote work location: right now i have a spin bike i use with my favero pedals (tacx bike smart is on order), woodway treadmill linking to zwift via bluetooth, and again a vasa erg.

week 1

so far this week seems its just getting your feet wet with the low intensity idea. there was one higher intensity run session and a couple of bike sessions and even they were not that rough. i found myself pulling back on the bike so i didnt go over into the next training zone, and i found wanting to run faster all the time on the treadmill but just sticking to the plan. VO2 max sessions on TR have left me absolutely wobbly-legged. the first VO2 session with 80/20, i could feel the lactic acid begin to dump but the work load and duration wasnt anything like what ive felt before. super easy in comparison. this is just week 1 however.

the swim is different than what im used to because previously i didnt have much guidance / direction. the workouts have been good and its been great seeing a pace that i need to be shooting for versus trying to makeup my own stuff cobbled together from the internet.

2

i live in an area where there is absolutely zero swim coaching available.

Damon - we do all the same races (Galveston, Waco, Bayou City series)… where do you live? I find this statement about zero swim coaching not my experience at all…?

My first ever tri was Galveston 2017 in 6:04 and this year I did a 4:48. My swim is also weakest (40 mins this year at Galveston).

I’d have to say that the one thing I do not lack is groups to train with, options to swim etc. that’s been a massive help to make the improvement I’ve made in 24 months from >6 hrs to <5 hrs.

3

Dan,

I actually live east of Beaumont, about 15 min to the LA state line. I have to travel to houston area to race.

4

Love to read training reviews. Keep 'em coming!

5

Dan,

I actually live east of Beaumont, about 15 min to the LA state line. I have to travel to houston area to race.

Ah ok. I’m inside Houston. Spoilt for choices here!

Dan

6

I’ll be looking forward to the updates. I’m a few months into the half distance TrainerRoad plan, currently in build. I’m really getting wrecked on the bike. I’ve had to dial back the intensity pretty often as to not destroy my legs for running. I’ve found that I’m great at tempo and endurance work, but anything at or above FTP for long intervals is really draining me. I’ve seen some huge improvements as I get a few outdoor rides in, but I’m always tired.

7

Sounds similar to the Maffetone plan:

https://philmaffetone.com/

.

8

I’ll be looking forward to the updates. I’m a few months into the half distance TrainerRoad plan, currently in build. I’m really getting wrecked on the bike. I’ve had to dial back the intensity pretty often as to not destroy my legs for running. I’ve found that I’m great at tempo and endurance work, but anything at or above FTP for long intervals is really draining me. I’ve seen some huge improvements as I get a few outdoor rides in, but I’m always tired.

Be careful with it. I completely overtrained on their middle distance build plan. Like really overtrained. Sick a lot for 2 months, fatigue, anxiety, depressive mood,… Way too much intensity. Since this is a 80/20 thread here, percentage in easy hr zone was about 63% and should have been 90 according to 80/20. In base phase my ftp was underestimated and my easy percentage was about 87%. In hindsight I improved way more in base by feeling fresh nearly always.

9

I’ll be looking forward to the updates. I’m a few months into the half distance TrainerRoad plan, currently in build. I’m really getting wrecked on the bike. I’ve had to dial back the intensity pretty often as to not destroy my legs for running. I’ve found that I’m great at tempo and endurance work, but anything at or above FTP for long intervals is really draining me. I’ve seen some huge improvements as I get a few outdoor rides in, but I’m always tired.

Be careful with it. I completely overtrained on their middle distance build plan. Like really overtrained. Sick a lot for 2 months, fatigue, anxiety, depressive mood,… Way too much intensity. Since this is a 80/20 thread here, percentage in easy hr zone was about 63% and should have been 90 according to 80/20. In base phase my ftp was underestimated and my easy percentage was about 87%. In hindsight I improved way more in base by feeling fresh nearly always.

Seems like that’s where I’m heading. I haven’t really made any improvements in FTP the last few months after base, but my ability to hold about 80-85% has really improved. I think I overshot my initial ramp test honestly. I’m pretty happy with the bike now so I might just try to maintain fitness there with easier rides and focus on run/swim a little more.

10

I’m a few months into the half distance TrainerRoad plan, currently in build. I’m really getting wrecked on the bike. I’ve had to dial back the intensity pretty often as to not destroy my legs for running. I’ve found that I’m great at tempo and endurance work, but anything at or above FTP for long intervals is really draining me.

2 things come to mind when I read this

  1. your FTP is to high. If you can’t sustain an ftp effort for say 30-45 min then your being too ambitious about your FTP. Doing a 30-45 min effort at ~ 97-102% FTP is a big ask. It’s really not an enormous ask though. If you’re not able to do it dial it back 10w for your FTP. Sure your ego takes a hit but I’d rather my training ego get crushed so I can crush people’s ego when racing. YMMV though.

I’d be willing to bet you some $ you’ll see > improvement if you do the above vs staying on the track you’re on.

  1. TR is great for a lot of things. I was huge on TR for my athletes ~ 3-5yr ago. IMO, and ymmv, they just have too much intensity, too often and the workouts lack the endurance component needed to go fast. It’s like taking a Honda civic and tuning it.

If I was starting TR over from scratch I’d reduce the emphasis on intervals in nearly every workout, reduce the % of FTP on a lot of intervals and add in more aerobic riding in each workout. But hey what do I know?

I do think it’s one reason why all but 2 of my athletes have abandoned TR in favor of Zwift

Anyway food for thought

11

i live in an area where there is absolutely zero swim coaching available.

Damon - we do all the same races (Galveston, Waco, Bayou City series)… where do you live? I find this statement about zero swim coaching not my experience at all…?

My first ever tri was Galveston 2017 in 6:04 and this year I did a 4:48. My swim is also weakest (40 mins this year at Galveston).

I’d have to say that the one thing I do not lack is groups to train with, options to swim etc. that’s been a massive help to make the improvement I’ve made in 24 months from >6 hrs to <5 hrs.

any area group in particular you train with or recommend?

12

I appreciate the input. I agree that my FTP has been too high. I failed a workout this morning I should’ve been able to get through if it was properly set, so I dropped it by 10. This is also my first year for tri and of structured training for any of the 3 sports, so I’ve gone from random workouts 2-3 times a week to 10 workouts a week. Thankfully I’ve had no injuries and no sickness so far.

13

any area group in particular you train with or recommend?

Guess it depends where you live and/or work.

I swim at ‘Dads Club’ they have a masters/tri group. There’s about 9 weekly workouts. The morning ones (which I do) are heavily tri biased in attendance. For 1-2-1coaching I use Gemma Hollis. They’re my choices, there’s lots more

Cycling - download the app ‘chasing watts’ and find groups anywhere and everywhere. I also enjoy the crit racing series at Memorial Park.

Run - there must be dozens upon dozens of groups. For me it’s ‘Kenyan Way’, but I just do the long runs with them (turn up and pay $5) I don’t follow their season plans.

Message me if you want more specifics etc.

Dan

14

Run - there must be dozens upon dozens of groups. For me it’s ‘Kenyan Way’, but I just do the long runs with them (turn up and pay $5) I don’t follow their season plans.

Wait… you pay to run with a group at Memorial Park? Which at last check was a free place to run. What am I missing in this PT Barnum-esque equation? Do they give you something besides people to pace with?

:slight_smile:

15

Wait… you pay to run with a group at Memorial Park?

No

Do they give you something besides people to pace with?

Yes. Aid stations every couple of miles. Safe place to leave stuff. Pick up mid route if required. The main benefit for me is the aid stations every couple miles and a group to run with. There’s often 100+ so there’s always a group of 3-8 doing what I’m doing. Different route every week with options usually up to 20 miles.

I get the value is in the eye of the beholder, I wasn’t sure either. However I can state for certain that my running is better when I’m in a group all running my goal pace and my distance. Think Slowman even did a front page piece on training groups and the advantage they provide.

If the aid stations and a group are not your thing then I guess there’s little value.

Dan

16

Often if you are following a tr plan to the t, it might not be that your ftp is set too high but that you are doing too many hard workouts and your fatigue is too high to complete it as planned.

A real eye opener was seeing some of the pro training blogs, and then seeing how much of the tr internal workouts are truly hero workouts. Seeing michi weiss fail a 4x8 at 105% told me we sometimes try to stick to a plan more often than just listening to our bodies and doing what we’re can best do on that given day.

17

Cool thanks. Yeah I swam at DC before and loved it, it’s such a treat to swim in their 50 meter pool and use their facilities, however I can’t fit their classes into my schedule with a young family. I’ve always been curious about kenyan way; the only group I run with is the kung fu bar run lol.

Now that memorial park pool is open I plan on getting over there some mornings during the week since it’s only half a mile away!

18

Keep us posted on this training program. I am using Fink’s BIF right now for my first IM (Louisville) but I bought Fitzgerald’s 80/20 triathlon book and I am interested in the program going forward.

I found TrainerRoad to be too much intensity too often. I am a 54 year old female 2.32 w/kg and I just dreaded my bike days and couldn’t even begin to keep up with the run days as written.

19

Keep us posted on this training program. I am using Fink’s BIF right now for my first IM (Louisville) but I bought Fitzgerald’s 80/20 triathlon book and I am interested in the program going forward.

I found TrainerRoad to be too much intensity too often. I am a 54 year old female 2.32 w/kg and I just dreaded my bike days and couldn’t even begin to keep up with the run days as written.

ya, i read his 80/20 book as well as a lot of dr. seilers research in the science behind the method. i’m not a “believer” because i have yet to go through a whole program but i’m very optimistic. it’s hard to refute the science behind it, especially seeing it’s essentially what the pros use. i’ve actually “talked” to matt russel on instagram and he’s a big believer in the method.

20

Thanks for posting this; It’ll be interesting to see your progress.

For what it’s worth, I’m a much less experienced (and much slower) “athlete,” having just one 6:25 70.3 (and a bunch of sprints) under my belt. I “winged” it for that 70.3, and this year started on an 80/20 program in advance of my second 70.3. This will be my first formal program to prepare for a tri. I settled on the level “0” plan, using run HR and bike power. With work, life, etc…, I was unsure if I could meet the time committements of the higher level programs, so figured for my own sanity I’d choose the lower plan, nail all those workouts, and supplement with additional workouts when life cooperated. I’m in week 7, and 11 weeks out from my 70.3. So far, so good. I’ll chalk up a minor victory just for figuring out how to set up all my training zones and work my TrainingPeaks account and sync the run workouts to my Garmin, and bike workouts to Zwift :slight_smile: I don’t think you can synch the swim workouts to Garmin. Let me know if I’m wrong. I sent an email into 80/20 with this question, which went unsanswered.