With the swim cancelled last week at Waco and a couple of others this year I have come to really dislike the time trial start. To me wouldn’t it make more sense to just change it to a short run to start, even if just a mile or 2 and still start them by AG maybe every 3 minutes? This way there can still be competitive racing (I am slowly coming to the realization that IM does not care about actually racing and more about just finishing), you can break up the bike start times pretty easily and is not the cluster which is a TT start.
I’m definitely a fan of a run start… equal to the swim time, so like 4mi for a 70.3. It breaks everyone up and puts a beating on the legs making the 2nd run even more important.
With the swim cancelled last week at Waco and a couple of others this year I have come to really dislike the time trial start. To me wouldn’t it make more sense to just change it to a short run to start, even if just a mile or 2 and still start them by AG maybe every 3 minutes? This way there can still be competitive racing (I am slowly coming to the realization that IM does not care about actually racing and more about just finishing), you can break up the bike start times pretty easily and is not the cluster which is a TT start.
The bold has been painfully obvious for years at this point. Sure there is a race at the front for the Kona or WC slots. But look at the VAST majority of the WTC’s customer base. It’s the meat of the bell curve, and the back of the pack. Those that are just trying to finish. Look at all the “I will become one” and “Anything is possible” types of slogans. They are all about people finishing and they will do everything they can to make sure as many people as possible have the best chance of doing that. And if that means the annoying rolling start, or TT start, which kills the notion of racing head to head, to achieve that goal, then so be it.
I would love to see any swim-cancelled race turn into a true R/B/R duathlon. And perhaps even put that up front as a contingency plan from the get go, with a set course planned out and everything. A time-equivalent concept of say a 4-mi run for a 70.3 or 8 mi run for a full would be interesting. Though I wonder if an 8mi run at the beginning would be a little too much. At the same time though it makes for a very interesting pacing strategy knowing you need to run 26 later in the day…
I feel like I hear Europe WTC races doing that while I don’t recall (in my relatively short time being a fan of the sport) US races taking that option.
Luckily I’ve never had a canceled swim, but some 70.3’s i’ve done or considered have separate transition areas so that would make it tough; you would need a second set of runners available. If T1/T2 are the same location then no problem.
With the swim cancelled last week at Waco and a couple of others this year I have come to really dislike the time trial start. To me wouldn’t it make more sense to just change it to a short run to start, even if just a mile or 2 and still start them by AG maybe every 3 minutes? This way there can still be competitive racing (I am slowly coming to the realization that IM does not care about actually racing and more about just finishing), you can break up the bike start times pretty easily and is not the cluster which is a TT start.
The bold has been painfully obvious for years at this point. Sure there is a race at the front for the Kona or WC slots. But look at the VAST majority of the WTC’s customer base. It’s the meat of the bell curve, and the back of the pack. Those that are just trying to finish. Look at all the “I will become one” and “Anything is possible” types of slogans. They are all about people finishing and they will do everything they can to make sure as many people as possible have the best chance of doing that. And if that means the annoying rolling start, or TT start, which kills the notion of racing head to head, to achieve that goal, then so be it.
I would love to see any swim-cancelled race turn into a true R/B/R duathlon. And perhaps even put that up front as a contingency plan from the get go, with a set course planned out and everything. A time-equivalent concept of say a 4-mi run for a 70.3 or 8 mi run for a full would be interesting. Though I wonder if an 8mi run at the beginning would be a little too much. At the same time though it makes for a very interesting pacing strategy knowing you need to run 26 later in the day…
I like the idea of a contingency plan. Most race directors know a week or if not more that there is a chance the swim can be cancelled so with the right communication they can let the athletes know. On the finishing comment, I would argue even for Kona slots it is not a true race anymore as the rolling start is just garbage. They should either go back to mass starts, AG starts or have an elite mass start that you must start in to get a Kona spot. Add the racing component back.
I think they should do a Le Mans start. 4 or 5 at a time start at the swim in, barefoot and in tri suit, run to bike and transition just like if there was a swim
I think the TT start for the bike could work if Bib numbers had some relevance to your qualifications within you age group. Rank everyone within the age group, assign lower bib numbers to the highest ranked people in the group and do the TT start just like Waco did with 2 people starting every 5 seconds. The top 10 ranked athletes would all have started within 25 seconds of one another and within a minute you’d have the top 24 athletes.
Wouldn’t be a whole lot different from a seeded rolling swim start.
Swim cancelled at the very last minute. I am not sure they have enough time to design the short run course and arrange it. Waco is a small town and I’m not sure 3,000 people will spread out enough within 3-4 miles. I don’t know but it might cause chaos, accident and whatnot. I rather have a safe race than chaotic and rushed one.
In New Orleans about 6-7 years ago, the swim was cancelled and they did a 2-mile run, out and back, to start the race. It worked well. Seems like we started in waves of a few hundred and let the run sort people out to avoid crowding on the bike course. The bike course for this race was a closed course, so it was already closed and relatively easy to add the short run at the start.
I’ve done one time trial bike start when the swim was cancelled, and it sucked, because you could only have 2 people at a time start, to avoid a crowded course, and it took an hour or more to get everyone on the road.
There is no way the Waco swim was last minute as the river had been up for a week or more and was predicted to stay there well after the race. At best the race directors were being ambitious trying to make it happen but after seeing it there is no way it was going to happen.
I agree on the run start as that would have been preferred.
With the swim cancelled last week at Waco and a couple of others this year I have come to really dislike the time trial start. To me wouldn’t it make more sense to just change it to a short run to start, even if just a mile or 2 and still start them by AG maybe every 3 minutes? This way there can still be competitive racing (I am slowly coming to the realization that IM does not care about actually racing and more about just finishing), you can break up the bike start times pretty easily and is not the cluster which is a TT start.
The bold has been painfully obvious for years at this point. Sure there is a race at the front for the Kona or WC slots. But look at the VAST majority of the WTC’s customer base. It’s the meat of the bell curve, and the back of the pack. Those that are just trying to finish. Look at all the “I will become one” and “Anything is possible” types of slogans. They are all about people finishing and they will do everything they can to make sure as many people as possible have the best chance of doing that. And if that means the annoying rolling start, or TT start, which kills the notion of racing head to head, to achieve that goal, then so be it.
I would love to see any swim-cancelled race turn into a true R/B/R duathlon. And perhaps even put that up front as a contingency plan from the get go, with a set course planned out and everything. A time-equivalent concept of say a 4-mi run for a 70.3 or 8 mi run for a full would be interesting. Though I wonder if an 8mi run at the beginning would be a little too much. At the same time though it makes for a very interesting pacing strategy knowing you need to run 26 later in the day…
I completely agree. And with respect to WTC caring more about the “finishers” than the “racers” – let’s face it, you are NOT and IRONMAN if you finish a swim-cancelled event. Sorry folks. I almost wonder if they’re perversely inventived to cancel swims so bucket-listers can earn their M-Dot tattoo (easy there mates, I have a M-Dot on my shoulder).
**Why don’t we (the ST community) get a petition going to WTC suggesting exactly this: swim-cancelled races are R/B/R duathlons. I’m being serious. This is a great idea. **I’m thinking of doing both Santa Rosa and Santa Cruz 70.3s next year. If they cancel the swim and did a TT bike start, I’d be pissed. If you’re going to take away the bath before the start, at least give us a warm-up run.
Waco stunk because I guess to give the pros room, they pushed the AG start times way back.
Pros were at like mile 40 when M35-39 got to start biking. Also not starting until 9:30 means most dont even start running until after noon. Temps were mid 80s by then.
With the swim cancelled last week at Waco and a couple of others this year I have come to really dislike the time trial start. To me wouldn’t it make more sense to just change it to a short run to start, even if just a mile or 2 and still start them by AG maybe every 3 minutes? This way there can still be competitive racing (I am slowly coming to the realization that IM does not care about actually racing and more about just finishing), you can break up the bike start times pretty easily and is not the cluster which is a TT start.
The bold has been painfully obvious for years at this point. Sure there is a race at the front for the Kona or WC slots. But look at the VAST majority of the WTC’s customer base. It’s the meat of the bell curve, and the back of the pack. Those that are just trying to finish. Look at all the “I will become one” and “Anything is possible” types of slogans. They are all about people finishing and they will do everything they can to make sure as many people as possible have the best chance of doing that. And if that means the annoying rolling start, or TT start, which kills the notion of racing head to head, to achieve that goal, then so be it.
I would love to see any swim-cancelled race turn into a true R/B/R duathlon. And perhaps even put that up front as a contingency plan from the get go, with a set course planned out and everything. A time-equivalent concept of say a 4-mi run for a 70.3 or 8 mi run for a full would be interesting. Though I wonder if an 8mi run at the beginning would be a little too much. At the same time though it makes for a very interesting pacing strategy knowing you need to run 26 later in the day…
The vast majority of those running a marathon, half, or a local 5k are in that same bell curve, so I’m not sure I understand your point. They are all about people finishing because it’s good for the sport and good for their business. I agree it’s unfortunate when swims are cancelled, but would a 2 mile run really make that much of a difference? Those who run similar paces would all get to the bike around the same time anyway, so it doesn’t really do anything for the crowding aspect. It definitely would affect pacing for the run later on, I agree there. So I’m not arguing with you, I just don’t know if adding a short run at the last minute would be worth the trouble.
The vast majority of those running a marathon, half, or a local 5k are in that same bell curve, so I’m not sure I understand your point. They are all about people finishing because it’s good for the sport and good for their business. I agree it’s unfortunate when swims are cancelled, but would a 2 mile run really make that much of a difference? Those who run similar paces would all get to the bike around the same time anyway, so it doesn’t really do anything for the crowding aspect. It definitely would affect pacing for the run later on, I agree there. So I’m not arguing with you, I just don’t know if adding a short run at the last minute would be worth the trouble.
Well all those people trying to complete, if you ever look at any of the chatter in the facebook groups, all complain when a swim is cancelled that now they can’t call themselves an “Ironman”. And maybe that’s a good thing for the WTC since those people who care about that sort of thing will be motivated to sign up for another race.
So maybe it is in the WTC’s best interest to allow swims to be cancelled to motivate people to sign up for another!
There is no way the Waco swim was last minute as the river had been up for a week or more and was predicted to stay there well after the race. At best the race directors were being ambitious trying to make it happen but after seeing it there is no way it was going to happen.
It would seem that delaying the cancellation also results in the race still being ranked as a triathlon by USAT:
“10. If a leg is cancelled or changed within 24 hours of the start of the race, the race will be ranked as it was originally sanctioned. (For example: A triathlon (Swim/Bike/Run) has the swim cancelled the morning of the race, or the swim is substituted with an extra run, it will be ranked as a triathlon.) If the leg is cancelled or changed more than 24 hours in advance, the race will be ranked as the type of event it became. For instance: a triathlon with a cancelled swim will become a duathlon.”
I’d choose an IM 69.1 over a 70.3 any day of the week. If they could only change the medals on the fly…
I did Mighty Man Hamptons last fall (2017) and they had to cancel the swim for high algae content. They did a 2ish mile run start, and I really enjoyed it. Not sure it did much to spread out the bike, as my bike ride at least was still pretty crowded (I am generally MOP 30-34), but I still liked the run part.
I feel like it adds a bit of strategy as well. I definitely got over-excited and ran those initial miles too hard, as did a lot of others, I think. Is it worth to go a little too hard on the initial run to avoid the crowds on the bike? Or is the better play to take it easy on the initial run and then try to start the bike hard and slingshot yourself through the crowds?
In any event, I felt it was kind of a nice change from “try to swim at your anticipated pace, try to bike at your anticipated wattage, try to run at your anticipated pace.”
Steelhead in 2008 had the swim cancelled the morning of the race because there were a couple of whitecaps on Lake Michigan.
On the fly, the race organization came up with Plan B (perhaps there was some pre-planning): A 2 mile run (1 mile out and back) with Wave starts based on Age Group. I don’t recall if some of the higher participation Age Group’s had multiple waves or not.
I was in the M40-44 so was in one of the later wave starts. Run went fine, transition went fine. There was some congestion out on the bike course, but wasn’t too bad, and I felt I finally got some clear space (no longer constantly passing people) 20-25 miles into the bike.
While I would have preferred to have the swim, I felt like Plan B from the race organization worked well that day.
A 4 mile run before the bike would have hurt the 13.1 run at the end, but I like the idea of having roughly the same time equivalent.
Waco stunk because I guess to give the pros room, they pushed the AG start times way back.
Pros were at like mile 40 when M35-39 got to start biking. Also not starting until 9:30 means most dont even start running until after noon. Temps were mid 80s by then.
This is what happened to me at IMCHOO. I got out on the run course during the hottest time of the day with all of the sun. While all those that were let go well before me were able to enjoy some of the run before the heat carried in. Was it a massive deal breaker for my run? No. But it certainly slowed me down more than if I had gotten out on the course when I could/should have.
I am all for a R/B/R with a canceled swim.