I’ve been sizing up some folks for new bike purchases lately, and a couple of them are small people - their options are pretty much limited to 650C (ISO 571mm) bikes.
So, in order to help them feel like they’re not going to buy something that’s completely obsolete or can’t be upgraded, I did a bit of looking around for 650 wheel/tire/tube options that a triathlete might want. Basically, the fast stuff we’re always talking about around here. There are a few options, but it’s limited.
Here’s what I’ve found so far:
Wheels
HED Ardennes SL 650C
HED Jet 6 650
Enve SES 650
Renn 555 Disc (clincher or tubular)
Zipp 404 Firecrest 650
If you want a 650C disc, it appears that Wheelbuilder can make an Aerojacket for you.
Is that all there really is out there for 650C options for aero wheels, or am I missing something?
Latex Tubes
See comments on the thread for some creative ideas!
Are there any latex tubes that will work for 650C (ISO 571mm)?
Tires
Bontrager R3 Hard-Case (23C)
Conti 4000 S IIs (23C)
Conti Gatorskins (23C)
Conti Grand Prix (23C)
Kenda Kaliente (23C)
Kenda Kriterium Endurance (23C)
Michelin Pro 4 Service Course (23C)
Schwalbe One (23C)
Terry Tellus PT (28C)
Vittoria Corsa (23C)
Vittoria Rubino Pro (23C)
Tubes: Latex will work in any rim diameter. Tubes stretch/fold easy enough (especially latex) that you can fit 26er MTB tubes into a 29er rim and vice versa, so you’ll be good to go with latex 700c tubes.
Tyres: Schwalbe makes some of their top tyres also in 650c, both racing and training models.
As a spouse to a tiny person, don’t forget the Felt IA/IAx and Orbea Ordu - their smallest sizes have a stack/reach fairly similar to most 650c offerings. We thought long and hard before pulling the trigger on an IA16 (over, say, a Cervelo P-series or Trek SC in 650c), mostly because 650c equipment would have to be mail-ordered from Europe and we didn’t want to depend on it.
I’ll look at Schwalbe and update the OP when I’m not at the day job.
Regarding 700C options for small people, I didn’t put the bikes themselves in this list, but can generate a list easily. I’ve got a bunch of data on that that can be compared. I’ll have to look at that when I get back to the studio. I know the IAs didn’t come up for one person because they were out of her price range. She’s also 153cm (~5’) tall with a 71cm inseam, and standover becomes an issue. There might be others out there, but many of the manufacturers don’t list standover height on their websites. Of the 700 bikes that do have standover specs, the Cannondale Slice was an option for her, as well as the Ceepo Venom, but she isn’t a fan of Cannondale and the Ceepo was too expensive.
IA16s are about the same price-range as Cervelo P2 and similar “quality-entry-level” bikes, and race-ready out the box (top marks for the aerobar, compared to the round basebars that appear on others in that price-range). We paid roughly 1750 pounds for it.
My spouse is very similar in dimensions, and standover is marginal - we ruled out the Liv Avow based on this (and the fact that the XXS size isn’t actually available to order). With the IA she’s just over the bike with her bike shoes on, but not barefoot.
I’ll look at Schwalbe and update the OP when I’m not at the day job.
Regarding 700C options for small people, I didn’t put the bikes themselves in this list, but can generate a list easily. I’ve got a bunch of data on that that can be compared. I’ll have to look at that when I get back to the studio. I know the IAs didn’t come up for one person because they were out of her price range. She’s also 153cm (~5’) tall with a 71cm inseam, and standover becomes an issue. There might be others out there, but many of the manufacturers don’t list standover height on their websites. Of the 700 bikes that do have standover specs, the Cannondale Slice was an option for her, as well as the Ceepo Venom, but she isn’t a fan of Cannondale and the Ceepo was too expensive.
Thanks again!
Another point to remember in advising a diminutive person such as myself is toe overlap. There is no way I am aware of to get around this and would be encouraging a 5’ person to stay with 650’s for that reason. At 5’2", it’s a big problem on my road bike and why I hate riding (and falling) on it.
Depends on the bike, crank length and shoe position, doesn’t it? I’m 6"3 and get toe overlap on some bikes, my girlfriend is over a foot shorter and her road and tri bikes are fine.
My wife is about 5’ 1", and have both road and tri bikes with 650c. I am sure the bike industry can squeeze a small frame between large 700 wheels, but I think it is a work-around IMO. Industry wants to shoehorn everyone into the same wheel size (I get it). That is not to say those at the extremes are best served by that standard.
700’s are a very good size for the majority of norms and even I would say slightly bias to the taller side of things. I am 5’ 8" and still have some tri bikes that use 650c. My point is it is easy to get aggressive and fit to a frame that has smaller wheels. A 5’ person cant grow to fit into a geometry that is larger. Just saying that 700 serve the middle and upper populations, while the shorter 1/3rd are told to ‘fit’ into the norm rather than use 650c for all sorts of silly reasons.
Terry bikes still makes 650 road bikes,
My wife uses a Javilen 650 bike also
I use both P3-SL and Softride 650c, I also love my 700 frame Look 596 too though!
Depends on the bike, crank length and shoe position, doesn’t it? I’m 6"3 and get toe overlap on some bikes, my girlfriend is over a foot shorter and her road and tri bikes are fine.
With the bike geometry, the crank length, and the shoe position under my metatarsals on my Trek, I hit the front wheel when turning.
Could you shorten the cranks, position the cleats further back, and maybe alter somehow, some way… of course. What
you can’t change is leg and trunk length.
A short female is usually going to be longer in leg and smaller in torso.
Why not get the size that fits in the first place without having to perform alterations?
Another point to remember in advising a diminutive person such as myself is toe overlap. There is no way I am aware of to get around this and would be encouraging a 5’ person to stay with 650’s for that reason. At 5’2", it’s a big problem on my road bike and why I hate riding (and falling) on it.
What she said. Even if the stack/reach are right, this is a bitch of a problem. I may swap in some shorter cranks on my road bike this season to help mitigate it. Might I suggest to those selling bikes to small people, look at the crank length and bar width as well as the frame size before you send them on their way. When I got fit to my road bike, it was on a stand… so I didn’t realize that wheel interference would be an issue until I rode it. Most of the time it doesn’t matter, but on a course with sharp turns, it’s a major pain in the arse.
Another point to remember in advising a diminutive person such as myself is toe overlap. There is no way I am aware of to get around this and would be encouraging a 5’ person to stay with 650’s for that reason. At 5’2", it’s a big problem on my road bike and why I hate riding (and falling) on it.
What she said. Even if the stack/reach are right, this is a bitch of a problem. I may swap in some shorter cranks on my road bike this season to help mitigate it. Might I suggest to those selling bikes to small people, look at the crank length and bar width as well as the frame size before you send them on their way. When I got fit to my road bike, it was on a stand… so I didn’t realize that wheel interference would be an issue until I rode it. Most of the time it doesn’t matter, but on a course with sharp turns, it’s a major pain in the arse.
While the intent of my original post wasn’t quite this, I appreciate all the input that people have had thus far. This touches on a lot of my frustrations as a bike fitter who recommends bike solutions for people. I have been slowly but surely building a stack and reach database so I can offer people a good list of bikes that fit them. I think I’m up to 93 or 94 brands. It’s one thing to find something that fits geometrically, yet another thing to hit some of these second level attributes, for lack of a better way of describing them. Things like toe overlap, standover height, and adjustability are all very very real usability concerns, and a bit harder to quantify. There are also customer preferences such as budget, desired components, etc. that factor into their list.
One of the things that makes it frustrating is the amount of information manufacturers put on their websites. Some are great about including crank arm length, stem dimensions, handlebar widths, etc., per size, while others take a much more minimalist approach. It’s easy to get tripped up trying to separate the good solutions from the very good solutions or recognize which bikes work best “out of the box” for someone. A great bike that fits somebody in theory doesn’t go over well when the customer’s budget is blown by having to upgrade cranks, handlebars, saddles, etc. to dial it in. It would be great if the manufacturers would share a bit more info online.
Sorry to derail your thread – totally agree with you re. the info manufacturers make available on their sites. In some cases it’s all there, but in others… not so much. Like you said, it’s hard to make an informed decision about what you’re getting out of the box.
Latex Tubes
Are there any latex tubes that will work for 650C (ISO 571mm)?
700c latex inner tube is around 6" too long for 650c, so I cut away 5" opposite the valve stem and join the inner tube back together with 1" overlap using vulcanizing glue. Works great since latex sticks to itself very well, and you don’t even need to roughen it up.
Latex Tubes
Are there any latex tubes that will work for 650C (ISO 571mm)?
700c latex inner tube is around 6" too long for 650c, so I cut away 5" opposite the valve stem and join the inner tube back together with 1" overlap using vulcanizing glue. Works great since latex sticks to itself very well, and you don’t even need to roughen it up.
I’ve been stuffing a 700C back into itself for 3 or 4 years now. No glue necessary
I tried stuffing a 700c tube back into itself once but didn’t feel good about the creases. Gluing is like patching a puncture - not a big deal and allows me to sleep easier at night.
Tires
Conti 4000 S IIs (23C)
Conti Gatorskins (23C)
Conti Grand Prix (23C)
Kenda Kaliente (23C)
Kenda Kriterium Endurance (23C)
Michelin Pro 4 Service Course (23C)
Schwalbe (more info coming soon)
Vittoria Corsa (23C)
Vittoria Rubino Pro (23C)
Anything else out there?
Last year I roller tested these 650C tires for my wife: Conti 4000S, Michelin Pro 4, Schwalbe One, and Bontrager R3. The 4000S tested best. The Schwalbe didn’t test too badly but my wife did not like the feel of the tire at all when she rode it in training. I didn’t test a Vittoria because at that time their Corsa was only available in a 20c width. I’ll have to pick one up and compare it to the Conti.
Another point to remember in advising a diminutive person such as myself is toe overlap. There is no way I am aware of to get around this and would be encouraging a 5’ person to stay with 650’s for that reason. At 5’2", it’s a big problem on my road bike and why I hate riding (and falling) on it.
What she said. Even if the stack/reach are right, this is a bitch of a problem. I may swap in some shorter cranks on my road bike this season to help mitigate it. Might I suggest to those selling bikes to small people, look at the crank length and bar width as well as the frame size before you send them on their way. When I got fit to my road bike, it was on a stand… so I didn’t realize that wheel interference would be an issue until I rode it. Most of the time it doesn’t matter, but on a course with sharp turns, it’s a major pain in the arse.
Yeah, first thing we did when we assembled the IA was to chuck out the 170mm cranks and replace with a 155mm model. Fit considerations were driving the decision (most people short enough to ride those sizes need short cranks), but toe-overlap is a non-issue thanks to that, as well.
I tried stuffing a 700c tube back into itself once but didn’t feel good about the creases. Gluing is like patching a puncture - not a big deal and allows me to sleep easier at night.
The creases get mashed tight against the tire once it’s inflated and become a non issue. Use a Sharpie marker or similar rounded cylinder to help with the folding process and then carefully pull it back out.
If you feel more comfortable doing it that way I understand. Just to let you know, I’ve gone a whole season (April-September) with a tucked latex tube in my front wheel for the last two years.
