I understand that the other two are offered as proxies for it, as not everyone is able to either attempt the hour outside or its difficult for other reasons inside (in my case I’d probably die outside from traffic and even with the AC, the temperature indoors is 35+ when working out at the moment)
Questions:
Is it the case that the further you get away from the 60 mins the less accurate the results? (I’m guessing yes)Is it possible for someone who’s perhaps not very fit to be able to produce a result that suggests they have a higher FTP than they actually do by completing the two shorter versions of the test? (I’m guessing it is)Whats the consequence of training in zones that do not reflect your true FTP?
So I did the 2 8 mins, the results said my FTP was 200 but I don’t think for a second I have the fitness / endurance to push 200 for an hour - its not that I couldn’t if I were fitter (I’ve just started riding my bike in the last month) its that I don’t have the cardio fitness to be able to do that but I can push higher watts for a shorter period of time allowing for recovery.
So whats the consequence of this? can you train your way in to your FTP? should I really use the 220 mins as a preference? can I continue to use the 28mins.
I have bought and started the coggan / allen book, which I’m guessing may address some if not all of this but whilst I wait to read it on vacation next week, can someone offer any answers in the interim?
I dont like the 60-test, unless it is an actual 40k TT race. You are unlikely to hold FTP for an hour all by yourself in your basement, and on open roads its generally very hard to perform without distractions. Ie: 60 test will net a too low resultThe 2x20-test is my fav one. 2x20, 2 min in betweet. Neg split in between them and then your FTP is your AP from these two intervals. Also hard to do outdoors ofc but a lot easier to suffer through indoors (since you really always see the end of the tunnel). 2x8 minutes can really overestimate the result from a new rider who have an unproportional AWC to FTP. It really doesnt matter much since you wont be finding too many 20+ minutes at FTP on trainerroad and your fitness will quickly rise.There is also Hunter Allens test: warmup, 5 minutes very hard (I dont like max here, since that would leave at least me knocked out for quite a while), 10 minutes easy and then 20 all out and use 95% of that as FTP.
All of these are on trainerroad really.
I guess it does not really matter in one sense as even if it does overestimate it, at some point as fitness improves, they should get more closely aligned, so if there was a massive discrepancy the first time I did it - which was basically my first ride on a bike in years (proper ride, not wandering around outside on it aimlessly), when I do it again and the FTP might have gone up by lets say 5% but my general cardio fitness has gone up 20% they’ll be getting closer and I suspect it will be slightly more accurate
AWC = Anaerobic work capacity, ie how much energy you can get “for free”, without aerobic processes. If you got a high AWC, a 8 min interval can be well to short to get a good estimate of what you can do for 60 minutes.
You do 3 to 5’ all out
On a different day you do 20-30’.
There is a calculation to then calculate both your CP and AWC. These calculations are available online or in Golden Cheetah
With time you will become better at testing both and you will refine the accuracy of these numbers.
Keep it simple, do a 60 minute test. That way you get an accurate number rather than an estimate derived from a shorter test. One person might manage 95% of their 20 minute power, another only 90%.
A 60 minute cycle test is no more demanding than a 30 minute swim or run so why shirk the full test for the bike?
yes, the 60’ test is probably the most accurate. I would certainly not argue the 7 sins of testing
However if a person decides to test, the best protocol is probably the one they will actually do. A lot of people, myself included, can’t convince ourselves to do 60’ on a trainer.
Of the protocols that “estimate”, the 3-5 / 20-30 seems to be widely accepted and provides a little more insight. For example the AWC can also be estimated.
The further away you get from 60 minutes the more your anaerobic capacity can fool the prediction. People with a large anaerobic capacity will appears to have more FTP than they do, people with low anaerobic capacity will appear to have less.
The further away you get from 60 minutes the more your anaerobic capacity can fool the prediction. People with a large anaerobic capacity will appears to have more FTP than they do, people with low anaerobic capacity will appear to have less.
the 20 minute is close enough for government work and is tolerable enough to do indoors. You don’t take the absolute value, you deflate it by some factor, I think .95 You have to be a little careful of efforts where you swing wildly up and down in your efforts.
A friend of mine who studies this stuff is a strong proponent of using a 5 minute “blow out” effort prior to the test to burn off the store glycogen.
I guess mostly your goal is to find a repeatable protocol and use it consistently. The hour alone indoors is tedious and painful so many people just use the 20.
If you use 20 min tests it varies so much. One individual might have an FTP of 95% of 20 minute power but another only 90%.
If you make people do a 30 minute test but only take the average power from 10 minutes in until 25 minutes in, you exclude any fast starts and do or die anaerobic last few minutes at the end, and get a number closer to the full 60 minute test.
Obviously this does not work if people cheat, they must do the best they can over the full 30 minutes and not cheat by upping the power then easing off at 25 minutes.
so what is the consequence of training with a overinflated ftp?
Does your fitness rise to meet it? are there other issues?
Inflated by 5-10 watts? No consequences.
Inflated by 25 watts? You might design interval sessions you can’t finish, and be training the wrong systems sometimes. Think you are doing vo2 work, really doing anaerobic work. Try to do a 2x20, can’t.
It will be obvious eventually that your estimate is too high.
In fact one day this may all click and you realize you don’t really need to formally test yourself ever!
If you use 20 min tests it varies so much. One individual might have an FTP of 95% of 20 minute power but another only 90%.
If you make people do a 30 minute test but only take the average power from 10 minutes in until 25 minutes in, you exclude any fast starts and do or die anaerobic last few minutes at the end, and get a number closer to the full 60 minute test.
Obviously this does not work if people cheat, they must do the best they can over the full 30 minutes and not cheat by upping the power then easing off at 25 minutes.
That’s something I’m only getting my brain around recently. You are doing a test where you want to run as fast as you can without the transmission kicking down into passing gear. Every time you surge up into the anaerobic system, its actually cheating a bit because your aerobic is taking a little break. So getting a higher average score from some heroic 30 second surges in the “big block” wattage (i.e. higher than the 390 Ford displacement in watts) just makes the final result less valid and reliable for future comparison.
I just go with 60 min np power. I’ll usually have 5-6 throughout the year where I’ll feel that it was hard enough to reset based on that ride/race.
I will never test as I would never have the motivation solo. A hard group ride or race, though, gets me in the ballpark. And at the end of the day, being in the ballpark is just fine.
You can’t get a higher average power by surging periodically during a long effort. You aren’t giving the aerobic system a break, it is still going, and then afterwards has to go even harder to ‘recharge’ the anaerobic battery you just depleted.
Net result is lower average power.
That’s something I’m only getting my brain around recently. You are doing a test where you want to run as fast as you can without the transmission kicking down into passing gear. Every time you surge up into the anaerobic system, its actually cheating a bit because your aerobic is taking a little break. So getting a higher average score from some heroic 30 second surges in the “big block” wattage (i.e. higher than the 390 Ford displacement in watts) just makes the final result less valid and reliable for future comparison.