Just curious - I recently upgraded my bike to a sweet Premier Tactical and it came with an ultegra 52-36 crank, which seems to be typical for most modern tribikes (on the Cervelo website the P2s come with 52-36). I came from a Cervelo P2c which I think had a 53-39 up front.
I’m definitely not a stud cyclist by any stretch, but I can average 240w for an hour if all goes right. With this 52-36, I’m literally in the largest (fastest) possible gear setting on all flats, and almost spinning it out on anything more than a few percent decline. This used to never happen on with the 53-39, where I could even put up productive watts on 5%+ declines. To clarify, I’m in the big ring up front and the smallest possible cog on the back for flats and declines, checked it multiple times.
I guess I’m surprised that all you bigger watt folks aren’t spinning out this 52-36 the moment you hit even a small downhill, but I’ll admit I’m a grinder and I’m definitely not hitting 90+rpm unless I’m literally spinning out the cassette. I guess I feel almost limited in that on a flat, I’m in the ‘fastest’ gear setting at my lower cadence.
How do you folks who ride 52-36 find it? Adequate? Or somewhat limited on top speed the moment you hit any descent?
Are you sure that the cassettes on each bike are the same? Going from 53T down to 52T is a fairly small change (<2%), while going from a 10T small cog to an 11T is a significant change.
I have 50T large rings on all of my bikes (50/34 on my tri bike, 50/36 on my main road bike). On descents in the 50x11, I usually end up spinning out in the low 40s, and then tuck. At my normal cadence (84rpm), that would be good for about 30mph. On flat ground I’m usually in the 50x15 or 17 at 84 rpm, good for low 20s.
A quick comparison over at http://www.gear-calculator.com/ shows that depending on cadence, the difference between a 53x11 and 52x11 is only 0.4mph (60rpm) to 0.8mph (120rpm). So if you’re rarely 90rpm or higher, you’re only giving up 0.4-0.6mph for the same cadence…
With a 52x11 I don’t usually consider myself spun out until around 37mph, which I’m definitely not hitting on the flats.
My preferred cadence is around 90-92.
FTP around 273. Raced a 40k TT in 55:25 (almost 27mph) last year with a 52/36 and 28/11 which is the same gearing I use for everything. Though it was like 100 degrees out and I was only able to average like 245 or so.
I have two identical bikes (cannondale slices), one has 52-38 round, the other 53-39 oval; I almost don’t feel any difference (they have identical cassettes). My third bike has 650c wheels (1992 steel quintana roo); with that I have to go one tooth smaller on the cogs, in the same riding conditions
Something must be wrong either the outer ring is not 52 or you’re using a junior-cassette?
My first years in tri, I used a compact crank and never! felt even remotely undergeared, while having competitive bike-splits
Currently riding with a 52x36 on tri-bike and barely even use the 14T cog, let alone the smaller ones!
Even when I was still road-racing long time ago I wasn’t really using my 53x11 gear very often … even at 60kph, 12T should do except maybe when you really want to put out some power? I only remember being spun out on the flats once with my 53x11 gear but that was motorpacing at 110kph and like 180rpm / 210bpm or more
For my road-bike, just looked into one of my last hilly-ish rides on the SRAM AXS app.
note I’m using a 48-35T crank! and 10-28T cassette
Ride was close to 4hrs and I didn’t touch the 10,11 cog at all and only very briefly used the 12 cog. majority of the ride was in 16,17,19T
this with an avg. cadence of 73 (normally ride around 90-95 on the flats), and NP of 255W
Now from a recent group-ride (flat); cruising speed 40-45kph
avg. cadence was 86 (this feels low? maybe some soft-pedaling), NP 231W also didn’t use the 10&11T and briefly used 12T with majority(53min) in 16T and 14,15,17 all appr 25min.
What cassette did you have on your old bike and what is on the new one? Assuming the smallest cog on each is 11 speed here is a comparison speed wise at different cadences between a 52 and 53 front chainring:
I have 50T large rings on all of my bikes (50/34 on my tri bike, 50/36 on my main road bike). On descents in the 50x11, I usually end up spinning out in the low 40s, and then tuck. At my normal cadence (84rpm), that would be good for about 30mph. On flat ground I’m usually in the 50x15 or 17 at 84 rpm, good for low 20s.
A quick comparison over at http://www.gear-calculator.com/ shows that depending on cadence, the difference between a 53x11 and 52x11 is only 0.4mph (60rpm) to 0.8mph (120rpm). So if you’re rarely 90rpm or higher, you’re only giving up 0.4-0.6mph for the same cadence…
Thing is though, personally, I don’t care to be trying to spin 110/120 rpm going down a hill at 40mph in the extensions.
I’d much rather be within 5rpm of my normal target. It just feels more secure. Road bike included.
IMHO feel like the British TT scene gets it right on this topic. Bigger front.
Just curious - I recently upgraded my bike to a sweet Premier Tactical and it came with an ultegra 52-36 crank, which seems to be typical for most modern tribikes (on the Cervelo website the P2s come with 52-36). I came from a Cervelo P2c which I think had a 53-39 up front.
I’m definitely not a stud cyclist by any stretch, but I can average 240w for an hour if all goes right. With this 52-36, I’m literally in the largest (fastest) possible gear setting on all flats, and almost spinning it out on anything more than a few percent decline. This used to never happen on with the 53-39, where I could even put up productive watts on 5%+ declines. To clarify, I’m in the big ring up front and the smallest possible cog on the back for flats and declines, checked it multiple times.
I guess I’m surprised that all you bigger watt folks aren’t spinning out this 52-36 the moment you hit even a small downhill, but I’ll admit I’m a grinder and I’m definitely not hitting 90+rpm unless I’m literally spinning out the cassette. I guess I feel almost limited in that on a flat, I’m in the ‘fastest’ gear setting at my lower cadence.
How do you folks who ride 52-36 find it? Adequate? Or somewhat limited on top speed the moment you hit any descent?
Same issue. Went from a 53-39 10spd to 52-36 11spd and I feel spun out on mild descents. I’m talking 120 rpm plus. Makes me wonder about going back to a 53-39 in 11 spd.
Just curious - I recently upgraded my bike to a sweet Premier Tactical and it came with an ultegra 52-36 crank, which seems to be typical for most modern tribikes (on the Cervelo website the P2s come with 52-36). I came from a Cervelo P2c which I think had a 53-39 up front.
I’m definitely not a stud cyclist by any stretch, but I can average 240w for an hour if all goes right. With this 52-36, I’m literally in the largest (fastest) possible gear setting on all flats, and almost spinning it out on anything more than a few percent decline. This used to never happen on with the 53-39, where I could even put up productive watts on 5%+ declines. To clarify, I’m in the big ring up front and the smallest possible cog on the back for flats and declines, checked it multiple times.
I guess I’m surprised that all you bigger watt folks aren’t spinning out this 52-36 the moment you hit even a small downhill, but I’ll admit I’m a grinder and I’m definitely not hitting 90+rpm unless I’m literally spinning out the cassette. I guess I feel almost limited in that on a flat, I’m in the ‘fastest’ gear setting at my lower cadence.
How do you folks who ride 52-36 find it? Adequate? Or somewhat limited on top speed the moment you hit any descent?
Same issue. Went from a 53-39 10spd to 52-36 11spd and I feel spun out on mild descents. I’m talking 120 rpm plus. Makes me wonder about going back to a 53-39 in 11 spd.
Honest question - if you’re spinning out going ~42 mph down a “mild descent”, why would one extra tooth make any difference? Especially on what we’ll call a “real” descent?
Something is up. I just raced Gulf Coast 70.3, which is pretty flat. I spent a total of 23 seconds in my 52x11 combination at 92 RPM. That was on a -3.7% grade going 33 MPH.
I spent almost 2/3 of my time between my 52x17 and 52x19 at around 94 RPM going about 23 MPH.
Even if I was a grinder at 75 RPM, the biggest combo I would have used most of the time would have been my 52x13. (But yeah, I would have had to spun in the 90s to go >30 MPH on a 52x11.)
If you are truly a <80 RPM grinder, I would look for a 56 or bigger chainring for those flat rides. I would also work on spin drills so you can comfortably ride >100 RPM. In my GC70.3 race, I spent about 15% of my time a little above 100 RPM, but this is not spinning out to me.
…Same issue. Went from a 53-39 10spd to 52-36 11spd and I feel spun out on mild descents. I’m talking 120 rpm plus. Makes me wonder about going back to a 53-39 in 11 spd.
Both this and the OP’s post makes little sense unless I misunderstand what’s being claimed. We’re talking about a difference in gearing of just over 1.9% when you change from 53 teeth to 52 teeth, yet you’re both talking as though something dramatic happened to your cadence. It’s very simple maths, if you’re doing 120rpm+ for given conditions on a descent now, you would have been doing 117.7rpm+ with the larger chainring. Is an increase of 2.3rpm really a dramatic issue? There’s nothing mysterious or unpredictable happening here. The gear ratio is the gear ratio. I think we’re all assuming your cassettes haven’t changed since only chainrings have been mentioned? If they have, and as others have said, a change in tooth count for the smallest sprocket will have a much greater impact on the maximum gear ratio.
Yes, you’re all correct re: it really being only small difference - it’s likely just my perceived difference.
I know for sure I’m a big-time grinder - I prefer cadences 70 or lower, so that will definitely affect my perception of ‘spinning out’ even if I"m nowhere near spinning out in reality. It just feels terrible for me to spin at 90+; I know I can train to do it (and may do so) but I’ve always preferred low cadence.
It’s just disturbing for me to be on a flat or -1% and be already in the maximum gear, and be at near my normal cadence. Will have to get used to it - but it’s encouraging to hear from all the other stronger cyclists that are having zero problem with it - I was worried I’d have to swap it out, but if it’s good enough for you guys, it’ll be good enough for me once I get used to it.
Same issue. Went from a 53-39 10spd to 52-36 11spd and I feel spun out on mild descents. I’m talking 120 rpm plus. Makes me wonder about going back to a 53-39 in 11 spd.
Honest question - if you’re spinning out going ~42 mph down a “mild descent”, why would one extra tooth make any difference? Especially on what we’ll call a “real” descent?
It isn’t optimal to your whole event to say “just learn to spin the crap out of it” instead of having the equipment to maintain your target cadence and power. Any deviations are loss, loss is waste, waste is slower.
If somebody routinely rides at 100rpm and that is close to optimal for them, good. Let that dictate their equipment. But if a person’s optimum is less…why introduce waste to make up for equipment mismatch?
Also, there’s a reason “gravity well elevation gain” is disallowed for everesting. It’s the same reason pros are so dang fast in TT’s that have rollers. They’re so fast heading into the next roller they essentially flatten the terrain.
I used to chicken out on the local little 2min downhills and coast down on the bull horns then pedal up. Man, I noticed a big gain in average speed when I learned to stay in the aerobars AND put out power in the 56t all the way down. Literally flattening the terrain.
Yes, you’re all correct re: it really being only small difference - it’s likely just my perceived difference.
I’m with you here. Went from 53-39 to 52-36 with the same cassettes on both my road and tri bikes a few years back. It’s always felt a bit off. The easiest place to really feel it is on anything that goes down and I “run out of gears” for my cadence preference. On flats, I just feel off by 1/2 a gear with my cadence. I’d love to grab a 53-39 and ride it for a week just for a comparison the differences in feel again.
