During COVID, I have been trying to come up with fun endurance goals while we wait for races to return. I was wondering if I could do a 5:00 mile over the age of 50. I have trained myself to be a diesel competing in 70.3 and 140.6 races over the last 8 years. I feel like I am in the ballpark as I have run a 1/2 marathon within the last year at 1:22. How would I even train for the mile and how many weeks would you think is required to activate some of those faster twitch fibers? Finally, would this be a good idea in the long term with intent on returning to focus on 70.3/140.6 races in the future?
I don’t think a 1:22 half marathon puts you in the range of sub 5 at 50.
First can you do 4x400m coming in at 75 seconds and leaving on 90?
Sorry I didnt mean to imply that this was doable without specific training. And no I don’t think I can do 75 sec 400’s leaving on the 90 sec mark. I was seeking to learn from others who may have gone down this road. Thanks.
I tried this a couple of years ago (at age 47) and failed.
Some comments:
- I have decided that the mile is a “sprint Marathon.” Whereas an 800 is a “marathon sprint.”
What this means is that to train for a mile you should probably run decent mileage, continue doing hard tempo type workouts and add several speed and interval workouts. - This is NOT what I did. I cut mileage, stopped doing tempo runs and added sprint and short intervals.
The result was that my 800 got better. But my mile actually got slower (or stayed the same).
Before I started the training block I was capable of 2:22, 5:20, 1:20 ( 800, mile, half marathon).
When I was done I was capable of 2:16, 5:20, 1:23. - This was a pretty fun exercise. I don’t regret not making the goal.
- I do think the speed work helped in later seasons in longer races.
- Bernard Lagat uses Strava and spends part of his time running in my neighborhood. He had lots of the Strava records in my neighborhood (by accident- his slow pace is often sub 5:30.).
I had fun trying to beat some of Lagat’s .5- 1 mile segments in my neighborhood. - In general- I think I did the training that I wanted and I made the improvements I wanted. It turns out that was better for the 800.
- I do wish I had entered a master’s track meet and run the 800.
I did this exact thing in May + June and am going to try again in Sep + Oct. No idea if what I did was ‘right’, but I did a weekly track session of either 200s, 400s, or 800s and my weekly long run of 12ish incorporated tempo work. I started doing strides after a lot of my easy runs. I got faster, but didn’t come that close … only 5:20 (I probably have a little better HM fitness to you as a reference, but am definitely don’t have great foot speed).
I was watching some old Olympic Games programmes last week, one of which was Jessica Ennis winning gold.
You know how the heptathletes all look like they’re running really slowly in the 800m? She ran 2.08 - from my sofa, I thought that I could probably beat that, as it looked like they were just jogging.
Went to the track the next day - my time didn’t even start with a 2… Another reminder that these are all great athletes.
My first target is to break 6 minutes for the mile.
I believe you should have approximately a 60 second 400m capability to be a 5 min miler. This may not be in the realm of possibility for a lot of people.
I guess maybe first thing is do 17 second 100m repeats over and over and over which is a touch under 75 second 400m pace, which is what you have to hold for 5 minutes. How fast is you 100m speed?
It’s roughly like asking a swimmer to break 5 minutes in the 400m. 100m, 50m, 25m times are more important than what you can do steady for an Ironman swim.
4:59 is one of my goals too - PR is 5:18
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I believe you should have approximately a 60 second 400m capability to be a 5 min miler. This may not be in the realm of possibility for a lot of people.
that’s like 4:01 pace for a minute - seems fast
I think I have a better chance running sub 5 mile than 4:01 pace for 60 seconds.
I believe you should have approximately a 60 second 400m capability to be a 5 min miler. This may not be in the realm of possibility for a lot of people.
that’s like 4:01 pace for a minute - seems fast
I think I have a better chance running sub 5 mile than 4:01 pace for 60 seconds.
This is my point. Just because you are a 75 second 400m runner does not mean you can break 5 minutes of a mile. You have to be a 60 second or so 400m runner to have enough head room to break 5 min for the mile. You guys are confusing aerobic with anaerobic events. The mile is 25 percent anaerobic and 75 percent aerobic.
Its what makes Mo Farah so unique…the guy can run a 48 second 400m close a 5000m with a sub 4 mile with last lap 53 seconds (this is what he did at the London Olympics) and still run a 59.50 half marathon and a 2:05 marathon. He is one of the few guys to run sub 3:30 1500m and sub 1 hrs half marathon.
Running a fast mile is about aerobic and anaerobic, but if you don’t have enough fast twitch to start, you can never run a fast mile.
This looks like a fun stretch goal for you.
Some quick calculations for a 5:00 min mile: You will need a VO2Max of 66 and power of 4.73 w/kg. Both are pretty hard >50 yrs old. This is elite international age group stuff. You may be able to improve your power to weight ratio via leg strength and weight loss, but you better be within spitting distance of the VO2Max figure already since it is pretty hard to change your vascular system.
Take a look at the Fifth Avenue Mile, which is a big race for some benchmarking:
Last year, a 5:00 time would put you in in 5th place in the 50-54 AG https://results.nyrr.org/event/5AV-19/finishers#g=M&page=1&af=50&at=54
55-59: You would be in 2nd place. https://results.nyrr.org/event/5AV-19/finishers#g=M&page=1&af=55&at=59
I know many of the people in these two age groups as I race them locally. They easily drop me on the shorter distances but I can beat them when the races get longer.
This looks like a fun stretch goal for you.
Some quick calculations for a 5:00 min mile: You will need a VO2Max of 66 and power of 4.73 w/kg. Both are pretty hard >50 yrs old. This is elite international age group stuff. You may be able to improve your power to weight ratio via leg strength and weight loss, but you better be within spitting distance of the VO2Max figure already since it is pretty hard to change your vascular system.
Take a look at the Fifth Avenue Mile, which is a big race for some benchmarking:
Last year, a 5:00 time would put you in in 5th place in the 50-54 AG https://results.nyrr.org/...&af=50&at=54
55-59: You would be in 2nd place. https://results.nyrr.org/...&af=55&at=59
I know many of the people in these two age groups as I race them locally. They easily drop me on the shorter distances but I can beat them when the races get longer.
Yeah some good thoughts - winning the 5th Ave mile is a dream of mine to hit that tape. I don’t think I’ll be competitive until my 50s. I’m 37 now and am far away from the front of the pack.
I’ve done the race 3 times and it is probably my favorite race over any 70.3 or 140.6. Its just so pure and an all out effort. Nothing compares.
I believe you should have approximately a 60 second 400m capability to be a 5 min miler. This may not be in the realm of possibility for a lot of people.
that’s like 4:01 pace for a minute - seems fast
I think I have a better chance running sub 5 mile than 4:01 pace for 60 seconds.
This is my point. Just because you are a 75 second 400m runner does not mean you can break 5 minutes of a mile. You have to be a 60 second or so 400m runner to have enough head room to break 5 min for the mile. You guys are confusing aerobic with anaerobic events. The mile is 25 percent anaerobic and 75 percent aerobic.
Its what makes Mo Farah so unique…the guy can run a 48 second 400m close a 5000m with a sub 4 mile with last lap 53 seconds (this is what he did at the London Olympics) and still run a 59.50 half marathon and a 2:05 marathon. He is one of the few guys to run sub 3:30 1500m and sub 1 hrs half marathon.
Running a fast mile is about aerobic and anaerobic, but if you don’t have enough fast twitch to start, you can never run a fast mile.
Eh agree to disagree on needing to be able to run 60 in the 400 to run a 5 min mile.
I ran a 4:52 in high school as a hurdler with a really bad IT band and was forced to switch to mid distance because it really only bothered me when I hit my top end speed.
I never broke 60 in the 400 (which is an issue in itself) as I really should have based off all my other times and general fitness at the time.
You could hit 5 mins now with the proper training. 2 track sessions a week and 1 tempo a week along with 2 easy runs and a long run.
For the track work vary it up but a good workouts will range from reps of 300-1000 with different rest periods.
The small detail in here is you were in high school. This guy is 50. I ran 4:43 as my mile split in my militray 1.5 miles fitness test (ran 7:08) at age 21 and back then I could run 54 for 400m (or at least I was only 4 years away from doing that in high school). Maybe you do not have to run 60 second 400 but McMillan will say it’s around 62 (I have not plugged in the numbers recently).
Sub 5 you need some raw speed.
I believe you should have approximately a 60 second 400m capability to be a 5 min miler. This may not be in the realm of possibility for a lot of people.
I guess maybe first thing is do 17 second 100m repeats over and over and over which is a touch under 75 second 400m pace, which is what you have to hold for 5 minutes. How fast is you 100m speed?
It’s roughly like asking a swimmer to break 5 minutes in the 400m. 100m, 50m, 25m times are more important than what you can do steady for an Ironman swim.
Hmm not sure. I am running a 4:54 mile currently, but cannot run a 60 second 400 m, more like 63 - 64 seconds. A 60 second 400 m would get you a 4:40-4:50 mile.
To the OP: I think high end running speed training is always helpful for all kinds of running distances as it improves your overall running economy.
As for mile workouts, 100, 200, 300, 400 intervals at mile pace, working pyramids, etc. Anything longer than 400 m intervals is very hard to in the middle of a training block on tired legs.
OK just plugged it into McMillan. 61.3 second 400m time gets you a 5 min mile.
I love the idea.
My only warning is watch out for the injury risk. Be very careful and listen closely to your body. Injury risk goes up immensely at that kind of speed.
I was a miler in high school and college. And we were constantly fighting injury…as fast-healing young men. While in my post-miler running career, experienced far fewer injuries.
This is all probably way old-school training and maybe no longer considered good mile training. But I remember a staple of my track workouts - kind of a benchmark workout - was 12x400 with a 200m super-slow jog between 400s. And you want to go at a pace where they’re pretty consistent from first to last. You want these in the neighborhood of your goal pace - so around 75 seconds.
12 is the goal. As soon as you fall off pace by more than a couple seconds, you’re done. Don’t let it turn into a misery-slog. Also per my injury warning risk, start with just a few and see how your body recovers.
But the theory is that if you can nail 12 in a row with that ~90 second slow-jog, you should have confidence at the same pace for a mile. It also helps develop a great sense of pacing. Eventually you don’t need a watch or clock to know your splits. You can just feel it.
For the higher end stuff just 8-10 ~100m “striders”…often on grass. Full sprint. Also watch out for injury on those…be very warmed up.
Again, this is just n=1 from the 90’s.
I agree with Dev, you need some spec. No hard and fast number but 75 will need to feel manageable and maybe even slow for the first 800. I’d start with some VO2 max workouts and some 200/300s(float for the first half of any given rep then build on the second half). Essentially build on either side of the mile and then start adding in some Mile specific workouts like 400-600 repeats with equal rest for 3000-4800 of total hard running.
The small detail in here is you were in high school. This guy is 50. I ran 4:43 as my mile split in my militray 1.5 miles fitness test (ran 7:08) at age 21 and back then I could run 54 for 400m (or at least I was only 4 years away from doing that in high school). Maybe you do not have to run 60 second 400 but McMillan will say it’s around 62 (I have not plugged in the numbers recently).
Sub 5 you need some raw speed.
I think I was very much an anomaly in general with my times. 50-300 times were respectable but the 400 just wasn’t there. I also ran a 2:06 800 so it isn’t like I lost much from 400-800.
Just wanted to point out you don’t need sub 60…though your new calculation is close.
My training was drastically different 20 years ago in high school. I may have been running 20 miles a week and was still able to crack 5 compared to 50-60 a week now. I have horrible memories of painful 600-1k repeats that got me there though.
I had the thought to do this as well once it became clear real races would be few and far between this year. I ran 4:43 in HS, and am 37 now, having focused mainly on triathlon and 10K-marathon running since then, so I was thinking I might be running out of time to go under 5 again. For the past few months, I actually went back and followed my training log from senior year to see if I could hit similar workout times, and did a few time trials when I felt I was getting close. Ended up with a 4:59 1600 (5:01 mile) which was good enough for me. Some observations:
-I was much better at the aerobic intervals than I was in HS - stuff slower than mile pace but with short rest (e.g. 6x800 w/ 200 jog)
-Definitely couldn’t match the top end speed - for example, a set of 10x200 that I did in 30-31 was now mostly low 33s.
-I don’t think you need 60s 400m speed to break 5. I ran 59 in HS in a relay the same season I ran 4:43, so 64-65 would probably suffice.
- Laps 2 and 3 are really hard to motivate if you are going solo. I think you need to hit 800 in 2:28-2:29 and 1200 in 3:46 or faster. It’s not hard to find a few extra seconds on that last lap if you have been doing 200s and 400s at 800m race pace.