Last year, when I was a total beginner just started swim squad training, I did a 3.8 km swim race and got 1:25:45. I did not have any swim background in my youth.
Yesterday, I did the exact same race and got 1:20:55. By cross-comparing the results of common competitors in both years, there was no significant difference between the race condition.
In the year, I did mainly endurance work in my swimming, commonly trained for 4 - 5 times a week with about 12 - 17 km per week (as half of the year I was training for 5 - 13 km long distance swimming races).
However, in running, I pushed my 10 km PB down by 2 minutes after a year break with no running at all (apart from orienteering races), only resumed training 3 weeks before the race with about 20 km weekly mileage, 2 - 3 times per week.
All the above are standalone races, not part of any triathlons.
I was expecting 10% improvement a year in swimming and aimed for 75 - 80 minutes in the race yesterday but I couldn’t make it. I’m very disappointed. A year of intense swim training has brought me only 6% improvement in my 3.8 km swimming time, but just 3 weeks of minimal running has brought me 4% improvement in my 10 km running time.
I am presuming that this was an open water 3.8 km swim? If so, I think there are too many other variables that can make this difficult to compare year on year, even if on the outside conditions seemed similar.
A better judge would be to see how your CSS pace is tracking…did you do a CSS test a year ago? Have you done one recently? That would be a much better standardised way of testing for any improvement.
I am presuming that this was an open water 3.8 km swim? If so, I think there are too many other variables that can make this difficult to compare year on year, even if on the outside conditions seemed similar.
A better judge would be to see how your CSS pace is tracking…did you do a CSS test a year ago? Have you done one recently? That would be a much better standardised way of testing for any improvement.
Yes that’s an open water swim - I cross-compared the average times of common competitors (>20) in both years and they were nearly the same.
My CSS has dropped from 2’0" / 100 m to 1’52" / 100 m in the past year - however that improvement didn’t translate to any race speed
Why were you expecting a 10% number? Training doesn’t really work like that, and especially not swimming . Putting in the work you should expect to improve, but putting a number on that is near impossible.
What does “mainly endurance work†mean? That sounds to me like it was a lot of sub threshold slower swimming.
You improved by 5 minutes in a year. Why are you unhappy with that? You should be taking that and building on it next year, and the year after that, and the year after that… so 5 minutes is 5 minutes.
I beg to differ with your conclusions…
Your pool CSS pace has gone from 2:00/100m to 1:52/100, which is about a 7% improvement in pace over that 12 months,
Your respective open water time has shown a 6% improvement, so the two correlate quite closely really.
Again, there are so many variables with open water like siting, actual distance swam etc that it is not always comparing apples with apples. But from your pool times your open water times improved at am almost similar amount…
I am presuming that this was an open water 3.8 km swim? If so, I think there are too many other variables that can make this difficult to compare year on year, even if on the outside conditions seemed similar.
A better judge would be to see how your CSS pace is tracking…did you do a CSS test a year ago? Have you done one recently? That would be a much better standardised way of testing for any improvement.
Yes that’s an open water swim - I cross-compared the average times of common competitors (>20) in both years and they were nearly the same.
My CSS has dropped from 2’0" / 100 m to 1’52" / 100 m in the past year - however that improvement didn’t translate to any race speed
Huh? 8 secs per hundred for 3800 metres works out to 5 minutes. Looks like you almost exactly hit that number.
What does “mainly endurance work†mean? That sounds to me like it was a lot of sub threshold slower swimming.
You improved by 5 minutes in a year. Why are you unhappy with that? You should be taking that and building on it next year, and the year after that, and the year after that… so 5 minutes is 5 minutes.
Yes there was a lot of sub threshold slower swimming because I was training for 13 km marathon swimming at that time, and the weather was too hot to swim fast in the summer (when the pool is 28°C or even 30°C, I can’t really do any speed work at all).
I’m unhappy because nearly everyone I know is much faster than me - even those new to the squad, and after 1 year of training I am still in the slow lane, also I can’t follow the local OW group who regularly do long distance practices (5 - 18 km) because they are too fast for me.
The best thing I can tell you is to accept that swimming is a skill and that you suck at swimming. When I finally did this I finally made some real gains
With those times and all the dedication to your training and think it’s safe for me to conclude you have very poor technique. Fix that first and don’t go near a squad until you have.
Was your plan to improve just to swim a lot? As a fellow adult learner, it took me a while to learn that I know nothing and I needed guidance there more than any other aspect of triathlon. My biggest gains have always come from a real swimmer telling me what to fix and how to fix it.
The best thing I can tell you is to accept that swimming is a skill and that you suck at swimming. When I finally did this I finally made some real gains
Yeah this.
I haven’t seen any swimmers that swim 1.40/100m+ that don’t have some fundamental issue with their stroke. A lot of triathletes get into the sport, throw volume at cycling and running and see instant results. Swimming, you will quickly plateau if you don’t address your technique issues. It’s like running in gumboots. You can still get quick, but you’re not going to be running 18min/5km in gumboots. Get a coach, get a video analysis done, get drills to fix up your flaws, work on those drills, understand swimming, body position, breathing, catch and pull etc
The best thing I can tell you is to accept that swimming is a skill and that you suck at swimming. When I finally did this I finally made some real gains
Yeah this.
I haven’t seen any swimmers that swim 1.40/100m+ that don’t have some fundamental issue with their stroke. A lot of triathletes get into the sport, throw volume at cycling and running and see instant results. Swimming, you will quickly plateau if you don’t address your technique issues. It’s like running in gumboots. You can still get quick, but you’re not going to be running 18min/5km in gumboots. Get a coach, get a video analysis done, get drills to fix up your flaws, work on those drills, understand swimming, body position, breathing, catch and pull etc
I did that early this year (I got a video analysis done and also a few lessons), and the result was that only my endurance got better, but not my speed. Now the coach thinks me I should work on my fitness mainly, especially that she wants me to spin my arms faster which tires me quickly.
The best thing I can tell you is to accept that swimming is a skill and that you suck at swimming. When I finally did this I finally made some real gains
Yeah this.
I haven’t seen any swimmers that swim 1.40/100m+ that don’t have some fundamental issue with their stroke. A lot of triathletes get into the sport, throw volume at cycling and running and see instant results. Swimming, you will quickly plateau if you don’t address your technique issues. It’s like running in gumboots. You can still get quick, but you’re not going to be running 18min/5km in gumboots. Get a coach, get a video analysis done, get drills to fix up your flaws, work on those drills, understand swimming, body position, breathing, catch and pull etc
I did that early this year (I got a video analysis done and also a few lessons), and the result was that only my endurance got better, but not my speed. Now the coach thinks me I should work on my fitness mainly, especially that she wants me to spin my arms faster which tires me quickly.
The best thing I can tell you is to accept that swimming is a skill and that you suck at swimming. When I finally did this I finally made some real gains
Yeah this.
I haven’t seen any swimmers that swim 1.40/100m+ that don’t have some fundamental issue with their stroke. A lot of triathletes get into the sport, throw volume at cycling and running and see instant results. Swimming, you will quickly plateau if you don’t address your technique issues. It’s like running in gumboots. You can still get quick, but you’re not going to be running 18min/5km in gumboots. Get a coach, get a video analysis done, get drills to fix up your flaws, work on those drills, understand swimming, body position, breathing, catch and pull etc
I did that early this year (I got a video analysis done and also a few lessons), and the result was that only my endurance got better, but not my speed. Now the coach thinks me I should work on my fitness mainly, especially that she wants me to spin my arms faster which tires me quickly.
Post your video here.
What would you swim 100m flat out in?
My 100 m LC flat out is 1’36".
Would you like me to post that raw footage in February when I did the video analysis because I don’t have anything else to post (as my university doesn’t allow us to take videos)
The best thing I can tell you is to accept that swimming is a skill and that you suck at swimming. When I finally did this I finally made some real gains
Yeah this.
I haven’t seen any swimmers that swim 1.40/100m+ that don’t have some fundamental issue with their stroke. A lot of triathletes get into the sport, throw volume at cycling and running and see instant results. Swimming, you will quickly plateau if you don’t address your technique issues. It’s like running in gumboots. You can still get quick, but you’re not going to be running 18min/5km in gumboots. Get a coach, get a video analysis done, get drills to fix up your flaws, work on those drills, understand swimming, body position, breathing, catch and pull etc
I did that early this year (I got a video analysis done and also a few lessons), and the result was that only my endurance got better, but not my speed. Now the coach thinks me I should work on my fitness mainly, especially that she wants me to spin my arms faster which tires me quickly.
Post your video here.
What would you swim 100m flat out in?
My 100 m LC flat out is 1’36".
Would you like me to post that raw footage in February when I did the video analysis because I don’t have anything else to post (as my university doesn’t allow us to take videos)
The best thing I can tell you is to accept that swimming is a skill and that you suck at swimming. When I finally did this I finally made some real gains
Yeah this.
I haven’t seen any swimmers that swim 1.40/100m+ that don’t have some fundamental issue with their stroke. A lot of triathletes get into the sport, throw volume at cycling and running and see instant results. Swimming, you will quickly plateau if you don’t address your technique issues. It’s like running in gumboots. You can still get quick, but you’re not going to be running 18min/5km in gumboots. Get a coach, get a video analysis done, get drills to fix up your flaws, work on those drills, understand swimming, body position, breathing, catch and pull etc
I did that early this year (I got a video analysis done and also a few lessons), and the result was that only my endurance got better, but not my speed. Now the coach thinks me I should work on my fitness mainly, especially that she wants me to spin my arms faster which tires me quickly.
Post your video here.
What would you swim 100m flat out in?
My 100 m LC flat out is 1’36".
Would you like me to post that raw footage in February when I did the video analysis because I don’t have anything else to post (as my university doesn’t allow us to take videos)
Yeah go for it.
This was from 22 February this year when I did the video analysis with the squad coach.
I really had a lot of problems at that time and trying to get rid of them.
Good footage. You will get some great advice here. I’m heading out, but most noticeable is body position is poor. It’s almost like you’re swimming with a band round your ankles! That will really hold you back, there is a lot of drag. Very fixable, but takes time. There’s a few other things going on too, like your breathing, but will post later if others don’t address it.
I swim 3800 in 52, but really don’t have much ability to help others learn to swim faster, so i’m interested to see what others will chime in on and help improve my technique too.
But the thing that got my eye is that your elbows drop below your hands on entry and you basically have no catch. Then from the overhead view, you are pulling your hands out super early and getting no push. Put these together and you have little propulsive force. I think you need rotation too, but I have no idea if a swim coach would say that’s why your stroke is the way it is and thus need to fix it, or if you should worry about rotation after fixing the other things.
At the end of the day, you are putting the work and and did see some improvement. But I’m with others in thinking you really need a 1:1 coach to fix the stroke first and then worry about getting faster in the pool, and then OW.
Big respect for the work and sharing the video too. If you can admit mistakes, you can fix them!
I’m a lousy swimmer myself and probably swim like you, but I see certainly a major error in your stroke and you can see that perfectly in the under-water sequences of the video:
after you stick the arm in the water (with the hand bent downwards: that looks good) the whole arm starts rotating around the shoulder, with the elbow slightly downward (thats what the poster Darren325 means with “no catch”). That’s all wrong, also pushing the water down such that your legs and bottom sink.
To do it better, seen from the side (as in your video), firstly only the underarm should rotate around the elbow such that the elbow stays high (To help that the underarm rotates around the elbow, you should rotate the shoulder inwardly (a movement not seen from the side) at the same time, such that the elbow stays up.)
Only after the underarm has rotated so much that it is in vertical position, your shoulder should start rotating (as seen from the side as in the video).
I swim 3800 in 52, but really don’t have much ability to help others learn to swim faster, so i’m interested to see what others will chime in on and help improve my technique too.
But the thing that got my eye is that your elbows drop below your hands on entry and you basically have no catch. Then from the overhead view, you are pulling your hands out super early and getting no push. Put these together and you have little propulsive force. I think you need rotation too, but I have no idea if a swim coach would say that’s why your stroke is the way it is and thus need to fix it, or if you should worry about rotation after fixing the other things.
At the end of the day, you are putting the work and and did see some improvement. But I’m with others in thinking you really need a 1:1 coach to fix the stroke first and then worry about getting faster in the pool, and then OW.
Big respect for the work and sharing the video too. If you can admit mistakes, you can fix them!
I got tired from watching that as well.
Lots of things to work on. You don’t need to focus on volume at all, you need to focus on building good technique. Your typical squad session won’t help with this much at all as the coach does not have time to focus on you individually. You need some 1:1 lessons, pick 1-2 issues each time, work on them, develop the muscle memory and ingrain them into your swimming then repeat with a focus on something else. Keep doing that for a year and you will drop 20 sec’s/100m easily.
There is a lot to comment on, the obvious things for me to begin with:
Body position-your hips and legs are super low, like you are swimming uphill. This creates huge drags and limits any propulsion you are getting from the front end.
You don’t have an effective catch/pull. It just looks all wrong but I am no where near experienced enough to break it down for you. As others have said/will say-you cross over with your hand entry, you don’t extend much on entry, you push down rather than back. Turnover/stroke rate is not really a big issue at the moment, you need to work on the hand entry and catch set up etc…