2nd Ironman time vs. 1st

Triathlon Forum
1

Hey All,
I did a search with no luck.
I was curious what the average time improvement(if any) was that people see with their 2nd ironman vs. their 1st.
I understand there are so many factors that go into this (weather, different course, different bike, stomach issues…) but wanted to see what a realistic time expectation would be.
If you needed more details, I was 10:30 in my first one but feel like it can be so much better with the addition of structured nutrition, more interval workouts or maybe even the addition of a coach.

Just curious. Thanks in advance for any responses.

2

Well I was 35 minutes slower. Granted the IM was earlier in the season, my training wasn’t there and I was coming off a running injury. But I think there’s way to many factors involved to come up with the definative answer you’re looking for. Maybe you’ll work your ass off and be an hour faster, maybe the same time, maybe slower. It’s kinda hard to tell.

3

My second was about 3 hours faster.

Some considerations: I was in better shape, better prepared, better bike, better course (the newer CdA course fits my style much better than the old), I knew what to expect, and I didn’t get violently ill during the ride. Mostly I was in better shape.

If you can cut 3 hours off a 10:30 I will be very impressed.

4

2 hours or so slower. haha. lots of issues (NOT due to pacing like some may say…2nd ironman i took it much easier on the bike than my first!)

5

26 minutes. Different course, 365 days between IM no. 1 & 2

6

57 minutes faster second time around, but on a faster course with much better weather conditions. Much of the improvement was down to pacing and knowing what to expect.

7

Bear with me, I think I have a point to make since your times seem to be similar to mine…not sure how old you are, etc… I’m 46… I think it’s pretty simple to plan for a 10hr (+/-) IM.

I’ve done triathlons off and on for about 30 years – but no halfs or IMs until about 8 years ago (not an exact #)

I did a bunch of halfs before my first IM.

My half times came way down (way over 5hr to 4:40). I think this was due to “shooting the big elephants in the room first” – tri bike and proper fit, swim lessons, lots of biking, simple nutritional planning,…

My first IM was 10:30 (+/-) and I’ve only bested that by about 15minutes – I’ve done worse (11hrs) - almost exclusively caused by running injuries. I’ve done 11 fulls.

My swim times are MOP (best is a 1:08) and that’s okay… It’s only about a 9th of your day. My bike times have gotten a LOT better.

My running is at a standstill due to tendon tears a couple years ago and now more age-related crap.

IMO, the first, and biggest improvement potential is going to be getting your bike time down without cooking your run potential…

I would focus your biking so that you are either doing 20-40mile rides above race pace (slightly), with some very high intensity intervals mixed in and some longer rides (50-70miles) 20% below race pace – the 100 mile rides could be as infrequent as once every 3 weeks… My success on the bike has come from the 20-40 mile race-pace bike sessions and lots of 3-5 minute intensity intervals mixed in .

My bread-and-butter work out is a 1.2mile swim session followed by a 30mile ride.

Unless your swim times really suck, I wouldn’t worry so much about decreasing your swim times, but a lot of swimming is always good because it’s a great way of increasing intensity and/or volume and minimizing injury risk.

So assuming you can swim no slower than about 1:20 (yes I know, a crappy time compared to all the fishes), your first focus has got to be getting your bike time down to around 5hrs — this will allow you to have more choices in your run leg.

I would focus your running in the 7:30 pace range. Nothing fancy – just a solid - average pace - running regiment.

So – take a 1:20 swim, a 5:10 bike (21.7mph), and a 3:30 mary (7:30pace) – that’s 10hrs and now add a few minutes for transitions and bingo… a lot better than 10:30.

Nutrition-wise – keep it simple – and race like you train. I’m a Powerbar guy.

I’m self-coached (except for the occasional swim lesson/masters workout) but could easily see how a coach would be a great resource if you’ve got the $$ and commitment to use him or her:) and especially if you are looking to go under 10hrs…I’m guessing that the need for a coach is proportional to the faster you want to go once you go below your “natural ability time.”

I hope something in the above is useful…

– josh

8

check that 3:30 marathon pace
.

9

silly me – thanks for the catch…3:16:30
.

10

My second was about 35 minutes faster than my first on a slower course (Canada for the second and IMAZ for my first). My third however was about 35 minutes slower than my first on a faster course (Florida). Had some issues that day.

11

Let you know in a years time. 2nd one in 9 years but have 12 months to train properly plus its the 9th yr since my mom died so ill think of her in training and the months coming into the race
Finished 15+ hrs,walked the last 20miles of the run because of a knee injury which was always there months before plus was not ready mentally because mom died of cancer a few months before my first one.

12

I’m coming from somewhere way different than you (5 hours different…) but here it is anyway:

IMAZ Apr '07 - 15:31
IMAZ Apr '08 - 14:41
IMCDA '09 - 13:29
IMFL '09 - 12:47

So I dropped 50 min between 1 and 2. I had expectations of dropping much more than that, but it was the lovely 97 degree blow dryer year at AZ, so I think I was lucky to finish considering the # of people that did not.

I trained much much harder that time around, but didn’t feel like I got out of it what I put in - perhaps I put too much in. Round 1 I didn’t really have much of a clue what was going on…I look back and laugh, but also value the “innocence” I had - I loved every minute of it. I did one whopping 100 mile ride and my longest run was 16 miles.

CDA, round 3, was where I finally raced closer to what I thought I was capable of, based on training, other shorter races, etc - my goal was actually 14:00.
FL was just some nice icing on the cake - flat course in the same year as training for CDA.

I think race experience is invaluable. Yes I’m a little better athlete now than I was in '07, but not exponentially better. I’m learning to “race” (go ahead ST, flame me for calling 12-13 hr finishes a race) the distance.

Next round is IMTX, so all bets are off for another substantial improvement. I just want to live to see May 22, 2011.

Long way of saying I think that yes, without knowing tons of other info, the potential for improvement is there - the fear of the unknown is gone and you can use the “known” to your advantage next time around.

13

I was two minutes slower for my second IM on the same course one year after doing my first. It was the 3rd IM on the same course two years after the first where the big improvement came after switching coaches.

14

Well, 2 different IM’s
IM Canada 2008 - 10:45:32

IM Arizona 2009 - 10:45:33

hows that for consistency :slight_smile:
.

15

did my first in 10:44 and thought it was easy. I was well paced but never in any trouble so i thought i left a lot in the tank.

second one i decided to go hard. Never finished. Collapsed at 27km mark of the run. Ambulance home… Now i got respect. Going sub-10 in 2011.

16

I had every intention of killing my first IM time when I went back. I trained hard, PR’d an oly, PR’d a HIM, and then pulled a hamstring 2 months out from the IM. I tried to bull through it, and made it worse. To let it heal I backed way off on the bike too and pretty much lost the last two months of training. I was hobbling through 10k again by taper time. Did I mention bullheadedness before? I still improved my swim and bike splits, but got off the bike in trouble and walked the marathon.

Go for an improvement, sure. Don’t hurt yourself getting there, and race what you have on the day not what you wish you had.

17

Like many of the others, my 2nd IM was about 45 mins faster than my 1st on a more difficult course (LP vs. FL), so 1 hour maybe. 3rd was the same as the 2nd :wink:

18

Good luck. I lost my dad back in 2003. Every Ironman I “race”, I do in his memory.

19

SOO glad to hear this…I hope you are 6’4"/180 and can’t run hills! Did IMFL this year, had a great training camp, and everything went right on race day. I’m in for LP next year, but I just can’t imagine doing much better there than at IMFL. I will be getting a coach and starting some masters swim though. If you are so inclined I would gladly accept any advice via PM.

20

SOO glad to hear this…I hope you are 6’4"/180 and can’t run hills! Did IMFL this year, had a great training camp, and everything went right on race day. I’m in for LP next year, but I just can’t imagine doing much better there than at IMFL. I will be getting a coach and starting some masters swim though. If you are so inclined I would gladly accept any advice via PM.

LOL - Nope, 5-10, 155 lbs and I like hills :wink: Mostly just more prepared and mentally ready to “race” than just ensuring a finish on your first. Of course, I probably did 15-20 tris before I tackled an IM (unlike most who just jump right in). I’ve yet to put everything together for one of these infernal IMs though. Have taken a break from them for a while, but will be back for sure …