I am uncomfortable with the idea that someone would choose this at 29, but then feel I fall in to one or more of the types of judgements she is familiar with.
It’s diffiicult to envision a scenario where that’s the optimal option at 29 and that there’s no brighter future. On the other hand if I felt I was suffering with no prospect of improvement and it had been like that for a decade or more maybe I’d feel the same way and that it was the only way to alleviate it.
This is one of the problems with mental illness: most of us can imagine horrible physical suffering that would make a person want to end their life. Conversely, most of us are fortunate enough to have never experienced mental illness that was bad enough to understand the desire to no longer suffer.
Mental illness is a truly horrible disease… and because it can’t be measured like blood pressure or sugar levels or coronary disease… many of us cannot understand how terrible it is.
I’m not saying I support this course of action, but I’m certainly not condemning it either.
That is sad. We show compassion to our animals when they are in physical pain and put them to sleep, but insist that people with deep and long-lasting mental and emotional pain endure it.
What is more compassionate to someone hurting? Denying assisted death where they can be at home with people they love or forcing them to use some violent means that could possibly hurt others as well.
This is one of the problems with mental illness: most of us can imagine horrible physical suffering that would make a person want to end their life. Conversely, most of us are fortunate enough to have never experienced mental illness that was bad enough to understand the desire to no longer suffer.
Mental illness is a truly horrible disease… and because it can’t be measured like blood pressure or sugar levels or coronary disease… **many of us cannot understand how terrible it is. **
I’m not saying I support this course of action, but I’m certainly not condemning it either.
I have a son who deals with depression. We talk about it often and I will do anything I can to help, but I don’t understand how he feels. I can only be there to listen since it it is not something I experience. Many times it’s a helpless feeling, there’s always something you want to do to help.
How would I feel about a 29 year-old committing suicide? For sure, it’s sad. But, if it was done after years of trying to get better and after consultation with other people, I wouldn’t judge it.
If suicide is a rational answer to the above situation, do I feel differently if it is carried out by official euthanasia vs DIY? Not really. I don’t love having the government involved in killing a 29 y/o, but that government role may build in some safeguards vs a DIY suicide.
I thought that the article touched on a point that is often so misunderstood. The woman stated that people often feel that because she suffers from mental illness, that she isn’t capable, or shouldn’t be allowed, to make the decision to take her own life, that’s she “can’t think straight.” It is an incredibly difficult concept to many that someone suffering can logically and rationally make the decision to end their own life.
I had a close friend take their own life when I was in college. She had suffered from mental illness since was practically a toddler, and throughout her life she had tried so many different medications, therapies, etc. She had ups and downs and when she was down, she was really far down. Self-harm, lashing out at others, wild mood swings, the list goes on and on. When she was up, she was incredibly thoughtful, caring, even cheerful. But, she always knew that the ups wouldn’t last forever, and the downs seemed to get deeper and deeper. She ultimately took her own life by overdosing on a cocktail of drugs. Importantly, she didn’t do this when she was at a low point, just the opposite.
She wrote a letter to her family and friends in which she explained why she was doing it and that she was doing it after a very long and careful consideration of her situation. She could see no end in sight to the suffering she had dealt with her whole life. She recognized the toll that her suicide would take on her family and friends but she also knew that the toll her illness had, and would continue to take, or her family and friends would continue to get worse and worse.
It was hard to come to grips with and took me a long time. At the time it felt like she was taking the easy way out and it took my a while to even scratch the surface in understanding the depths of her illness and how difficult her life had been. I can only imagine the suffering she went through, and how difficult a decision it must have been for her to end her life. Looking back at it I realized how incredibly strong and courageous she was to ultimately make that decision.
I think that probably reflects my view. I find I want to judge but I am hesitant to and I live in a house with a lot of MH issues and even then a part of me still wants to judge…
That is sad. We show compassion to our animals when they are in physical pain and put them to sleep, but insist that people with deep and long-lasting mental and emotional pain endure it.
What is more compassionate to someone hurting? Denying assisted death where they can be at home with people they love or forcing them to use some violent means that could possibly hurt others as well.
I feel sorry for this woman. But for the grace of god…
I also support euthanasia in limited circumstances. Mental health is an exceptionally difficult ailment to treat and to prognosticate on. I’ve read the summary of her diagnoses and therapies and I have to wonder if there’s more she could be doing to improve her condition (we’ve discussed psychedelic therapy here previously; I didn’t see that mentioned, for one.)
I also wonder why she hasn’t taken her own life already outside of structured euthanasia. Certainly she has the capacity to do so, so why suffer for another 3.5 years if it’s truly unbearable?
I would euthanize 1/5 of the current population of our ICU today, including the 107 year old guy on a ventilator and two life support infusions downstairs, if I had the authority and know that it was the most humane thing to do. This woman, I don’t think I could participate in her intentional death.
Is it humane? Check last months John Oliver episode on death penalty. Just cause someone is put to sleep and we cannot see their suffering, does not mean they are not suffering
This hit close to home for me. I’ve shared my story a few times, I won’t bore everyone with the details, in short my father was manic-depressive and took his own life in 1991 (he was 40 y/o). Pretty sure that term isn’t used these days.
Watching him spiral down his last two years have stuck with me all these years. The doctor’s continued to pump him full of antidepressants, which from an outsiders view only made his manic episodes worse. To this day I am terribly saddened he chose to end his life, but I understand why he did it. They way he did it is beyond troublesome for me to think about. People say suicide is the easy way out, but I don’t believe that fits every case. He didn’t want to die, but there was no other way to end his mental pain, everything the doc’s tried made it worse.
If my dad was afforded a dignified way to end his life, I like to think he’d have taken that route. Assisted suicide, ugle as it may sound, would have given us a chance at understanding and some time for acceptance instead of the undignified suddenness of DIY.
On related note, my stepfather was dying of cancer. He chose doctor assisted suicide when all medical options were exhausted. He got to die where and when of his choosing. His death isn’t remembered as a tragedy because he got to do it with dignity. Something my dad wasn’t afforded.
This hit close to home for me. I’ve shared my story a few times, I won’t bore everyone with the details, in short my father was manic-depressive and took his own life in 1991 (he was 40 y/o). Pretty sure that term isn’t used these days.
Watching him spiral down his last two years have stuck with me all these years. The doctor’s continued to pump him full of antidepressants, which from an outsiders view only made his manic episodes worse. To this day I am terribly saddened he chose to end his life, but I understand why he did it. They way he did it is beyond troublesome for me to think about. People say suicide is the easy way out, but I don’t believe that fits every case. He didn’t want to die, but there was no other way to end his mental pain, everything the doc’s tried made it worse.
If my dad was afforded a dignified way to end his life, I like to think he’d have taken that route. Assisted suicide, ugle as it may sound, would have given us a chance at understanding and some time for acceptance instead of the undignified suddenness of DIY.
On related note, my stepfather was dying of cancer. He chose doctor assisted suicide when all medical options were exhausted. He got to die where and when of his choosing. His death isn’t remembered as a tragedy because he got to do it with dignity. Something my dad wasn’t afforded.
I respect that you appreciate and understand what your father went through and give him the benefit of the doubt. I am sure that that would have comforted him knowing that you didn’t hate him for it.
I have told myself that if I come down with Alzheimer’s that I will take my life before I get too bad. I would much prefer to go peacefully with my family around me than to have to DIY and worry about one of them finding me.
This makes me think about a short tangent we went on regarding Noem’s dog where I said that I would gladly pay to have a vet come out and end my dog’s life at home with us holding him than to take him into a vet office where he is always scared and miserable and letting those be his last moments.
This is one of the problems with mental illness: most of us can imagine horrible physical suffering that would make a person want to end their life. Conversely, most of us are fortunate enough to have never experienced mental illness that was bad enough to understand the desire to no longer suffer.
Mental illness is a truly horrible disease… and because it can’t be measured like blood pressure or sugar levels or coronary disease… **many of us cannot understand how terrible it is. **
I’m not saying I support this course of action, but I’m certainly not condemning it either.
I have a son who deals with depression. We talk about it often and I will do anything I can to help, but I don’t understand how he feels. I can only be there to listen since it it is not something I experience. Many times it’s a helpless feeling, there’s always something you want to do to help.
I have a child with major depression and crippling anxiety. It is one of the hardest things that I have ever had to experience. I would not wish it on anyone.
If my dad was afforded a dignified way to end his life, I like to think he’d have taken that route. Assisted suicide, ugle as it may sound, would have given us a chance at understanding and some time for acceptance instead of the undignified suddenness of DIY.
You can either view my comments on this as bias or as speaking from a few decades of experience, but the way people die in the U.S. medical complex is heartbreaking, wasteful, counterproductive for families and patients, and tragic at the basic human level. The same obstacles to changing this here are the same in place for accepting euthanasia for humans: we don’t know how to let go of life even when death is inevitable and we view inevitable death as a failure of the system rather than a feature.
I could tell you a hundred stories after a hundred more about pointless suffering and ugly death in the ICU but it goes without saying. The fact that we have on our service currently a 107-year-old on life support for a week now is fairly emblematic of the problem.
The autonomy of assisted euthanasia and the dignity of that controlled manner of death is so far above and beyond what we do to people here, it’s hard to reconcile that disparity when death is imminent and inevitable. It makes the job hard to swallow sometimes.
If my dad was afforded a dignified way to end his life, I like to think he’d have taken that route. Assisted suicide, ugle as it may sound, would have given us a chance at understanding and some time for acceptance instead of the undignified suddenness of DIY.
You can either view my comments on this as bias or as speaking from a few decades of experience, but the way people die in the U.S. medical complex is heartbreaking, wasteful, counterproductive for families and patients, and tragic at the basic human level. The same obstacles to changing this here are the same in place for accepting euthanasia for humans: we don’t know how to let go of life even when death is inevitable and we view inevitable death as a failure of the system rather than a feature.
I could tell you a hundred stories after a hundred more about pointless suffering and ugly death in the ICU but it goes without saying. The fact that we have on our service currently a 107-year-old on life support for a week now is fairly emblematic of the problem.
The autonomy of assisted euthanasia and the dignity of that controlled manner of death is so far above and beyond what we do to people here, it’s hard to reconcile that disparity when death is imminent and inevitable. It makes the job hard to swallow sometimes.
I work in healthcare as well. I am constantly flabbergasted by what families will put their loved ones through because they are unwilling to let the natural course of life be completed. Even people who know that their family member would not want these things done to them, and will say this out loud, right before they sign the consent form for, “one more procedure.” It can be horrifying.
Several years ago my parents made me their durable power of attorney for healthcare. I had a long talk with them so that they understood that I wasn’t going to, “do everything to keep them alive.” They understood and told me that was why they wanted me to be making decisions.
I think that probably reflects my view. I find I want to judge but I am hesitant to and I live in a house with a lot of MH issues and even then a part of me still wants to judge…
When I lost my wife I was in a horrible place and had this option been available I think I would probably have taken it.
I now feel very strongly against it, but I also feel people should have control over their own lives. I feel more comfortable with controlled end of life decisions for terminal illness etc.
I think that probably reflects my view. I find I want to judge but I am hesitant to and I live in a house with a lot of MH issues and even then a part of me still wants to judge…
When I lost my wife I was in a horrible place and had this option been available I think I would probably have taken it.
I now feel very strongly against it, but I also feel people should have control over their own lives. I feel more comfortable with controlled end of life decisions for terminal illness etc.
The loss of a loved one is very traumatic. The Netherlands is not saying that assisted dying is a valid option in those cases. Chronic mental illness, non-responsive to numerous therapies, with no resolution is sight is a very different situation.
I read somebody describe three possible positions wrt euthanasia. Totally against. Totally permissive anybody who wants it gets it. Or granted in certain conditions. Most people fall into the third position. However then you have to be in the business of deciding whose life is not worth living anymore.
Because you are not going to allow anybody to decide to have euthanasia. The person in the article mentions it is insulting to say people with mental illness cannot think straight but that is part and parcel of mental illness
I was depressed to the point where I felt it would be better to be dead. At that time and after I was pretty sure I was not thinking straight. A good definition of depression for me anyway is a loss of hope that things will get better.
The Netherlands seems to be in the vangard of euthansia assisted suicide etc. At least there they seem to have rigorous evaluations etc.
Canada is a shit show. In the Netherlands to have assisted suicide for mental illness you have to demonstrate to assessors that you have exhausted all reasonable treatment modalities. The legislation in Canada proposed was that you only had to demonstrate you had been informed of all treatment modalities.
The Netherlands also seems to have a healthcare system which ensures that people actually get the care which could improve their conditions something many countries do not do.
I read somebody describe three possible positions wrt euthanasia. Totally against. Totally permissive anybody who wants it gets it. Or granted in certain conditions. Most people fall into the third position. However then you have to be in the business of deciding whose life is not worth living anymore.
Because you are not going to allow anybody to decide to have euthanasia. The person in the article mentions it is insulting to say people with mental illness cannot think straight but that is part and parcel of mental illness
I was depressed to the point where I felt it would be better to be dead. At that time and after I was pretty sure I was not thinking straight. A good definition of depression for me anyway is a loss of hope that things will get better.
The Netherlands seems to be in the vangard of euthansia assisted suicide etc. At least there they seem to have rigorous evaluations etc.
Canada is a shit show. In the Netherlands to have assisted suicide for mental illness you have to demonstrate to assessors that you have exhausted all reasonable treatment modalities. The legislation in Canada proposed was that you only had to demonstrate you had been informed of all treatment modalities.
The Netherlands also seems to have a healthcare system which ensures that people actually get the care which could improve their conditions something many countries do not do.
I’m not sure what the big fear is as long as the person is not being coerced into the decision in some way? To me, this is an issue for the individual and their love ones to sort out. It seems reasonable to me that a court of some sort should investigate to make sure there is no coercion and the person is acting of their own “free will”. If someone wants to opt out there should be some way for them to do it in as benign way as possible.
