from NY Times link
some food for thought for those who think they can cut corners in running because they are doing only sprints or olys
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Thats nbeen known for a while. Quite a few runners that started at shorter distances and moved up, then set PR at shorter distances again, including the ironically named Frank Shorter.
their kids are gonna be fast.
the worlds best 5k runners run 100+ miles a week
just like the worlds best marathoners
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Most of todays best marathoner run considerably longer than 100 miles per week, many approaching 200. Aside from that the things a 5k runner does during those miles varies considerably from what a marathoner does.
It is interesting that a lot of top runners move up in distance when they think they’ve peaked at shorter distances, then end up running PRs at the shorter distances… In the 50s through the mid 80s or so most top runners ran a fairly wide range of distances. Rod Dixon had top level success as a 1500m runner up to the marathon. Haile G set wr from 1500 to the marathon. Most guys now stick to 1 maybe two events at a time and occasionally move up. I think that single minded focus on one distance tends to hurt overall.
Most of todays best marathoner run considerably longer than 100 miles per week, many approaching 200. Aside from that the things a 5k runner does during those miles varies considerably from what a marathoner does.
It is interesting that a lot of top runners move up in distance when they think they’ve peaked at shorter distances, then end up running PRs at the shorter distances… In the 50s through the mid 80s or so most top runners ran a fairly wide range of distances. Rod Dixon had top level success as a 1500m runner up to the marathon. Haile G set wr from 1500 to the marathon. Most guys now stick to 1 maybe two events at a time and occasionally move up. I think that single minded focus on one distance tends to hurt overall.
Link to an article for that seemingly ridiculous statement?
Running With The Best covers training plans for maybe 10 marathoners that were somewhat modern. Seko was over 200 many times, Shorter well over 100, Rodgers well over 100, Ikanga well over 100, Many articals in running times gives typical training weeks. The only runner I can think of that might not be well over 100 miles is Ritz and he has big injury issues. Can you point to a top marathoner that isn’t above 100 miles?
I’ve seen the training logs (like, the actual daily training logs) of most of the Hansons Brooks runners (including Brian Sell, who was notorious for banging out high mileage weeks; more so than his other American counterparts…they log on http://www.athleticore.com which is the site I use) and they rarely got over 140. I’d definitely agree that all the good marathoners are well over 100, but I seriously doubt “most” get anywhere near 200.
But at this point, we’re arguing over something inconsequential. Yes, they bang out lots of miles. No secrets there. I remember a really good blog post by ChuckieV that went into detail about how American distance running went to sh*t at a certain point b/c people became convinced that there were “shortcuts” to marathon training. If you’re trying to be the best, there are no short cuts.
Which is why I said most are over 100 and many approach 200. Hansons are a bit against the grain in that they believe in lower mileage than many, lower being a relative tearm. Hansons had 1 runner make the last olympic team and he did 140 for a lot of his build. Ryan Hall was probably as high or a bit higher and Ritz lower. But most of the africans are as high or higher than Sell, The Japanese are renowned for being extreme in mileage, some of them approch 300 miles occasionally, Paula Radcliffe came close to 200 at times.
I’m certain I can find more who come very close to 200 than go under 100.
Most folks I knew who were on the runningtimes marathon forum (there were a lot of serious runners there - 70mpw was pretty typical), almost everyone who was putting in those big marathon training miles PR’d at their 5k. Not everyone, but most.
I dropped 2 mins from 20xx to 18xx after going from 35 to 70+mpw. That 20xx was a 15-year plateau that I just couldn’t break no matter what I did at 35mpw. Easily crushed it without doing any 5k specific training while marathon training. I’m sold.
200 miles a week? That’s a 28.57 mile average per day. Never heard of anyone running that much. Aside from top ultra-marathon runners. Geez
I would venture to say that no one has any idea what the “true” top marathoners are really running on a daily/weekly/yearly basis. The American runners get so much publicity so we all have a fairly good idea of what’s going on in their lives (too much sometimes) but the training that the Ethiopians/Kenyans/etc do is mostly a mystery.
Running With The Best covers training plans for maybe 10 marathoners that were somewhat modern. Seko was over 200 many times, Shorter well over 100, Rodgers well over 100, Ikanga well over 100, Many articals in running times gives typical training weeks. The only runner I can think of that might not be well over 100 miles is Ritz and he has big injury issues. Can you point to a top marathoner that isn’t above 100 miles?
average or peak weeks? I understood that the big miles guys were averaging 100-120 mile weeks year round. Which probably means there are 200 mile weeks in there, but it seems crazy to me to be averaging 200 per week year 'round. Not that I know much about how elite runners train.
I would say that the number hitting 200 is limited, though the Japanese are reputed for enormous distance. I doubt there has been a single world class marathoner running 100 mpw in the last 40 years of marathoning. As for the 5K, Bob Kennedy said he would peak in the 110ish range at times. High mileage for the sake of high mileage was not his style, it was what he found he needed to do and over many years of training arrived there. Most marathoners are in the 120 to 160 range (likely few in the 120 range). You can find detailed logs, if you want to jump over to let’s run dot com you can likely find that (Malmo logs or something like that). They had compiled a lot of different logs at one time. I presume you can still find them there. If you put that in hours, it is still less than 20hrs a week training for professionals hitting 160 mpw. Of course they have a significant amount of time aside for recovery, baths, stretching, etc. That is still far short of the average elite triathlete. A fortunate delima, the body limits the amount of training that can be done.
The few euros who went to train in Kenya reported that a typical training camp week was around 140mi (20mi a day).
Most Kenyans keep a lot of speedwork in their training weeks, and don’t go much above 140mi.
200 miles a week? That’s a 28.57 mile average per day. Never heard of anyone running that much. Aside from top ultra-marathon runners. Geez
It’s really not that “far out” to get to that mileage. If I remember my literature from my running background, Kenyan runners run 3 times a day during the week and 2-4 runs on the weekend. Their weekday morning and evening runs are from 60-90 mins with the mid-day run of 45-60 mins. Weekend runs go up to 3 hours.
60 min at 6:40 pace = 9 miles x 3 (a day) = 27. 27 x 5 days = 135.
Sat is 120 min am (~17 @ 7min/mi), 90 pm (~13 @ 7 min/mi) = 30.
Sun is 180 min am (~25.5 @ 7 min/mi), 20 min pm (3) = 28.
135+30+28 = 193.
Not that crazy if all you do is run…
Encouraging to hear. I’m ramping up from the 35mpw I did this past season to 60mpw…
Most folks I knew who were on the runningtimes marathon forum (there were a lot of serious runners there - 70mpw was pretty typical), almost everyone who was putting in those big marathon training miles PR’d at their 5k. Not everyone, but most.
I dropped 2 mins from 20xx to 18xx after going from 35 to 70+mpw. That 20xx was a 15-year plateau that I just couldn’t break no matter what I did at 35mpw. Easily crushed it without doing any 5k specific training while marathon training. I’m sold.
I doubt many are averaging 200 for the entire year, although some japanese runners propbably do or have. Some runners have averaged 200 for long build periods. But go back to my original post. Jack contended that marathoner average 100 miles a week (not sure if he was serious) and I replied with most elites average well over and many run 200. Then people started arguing about the upper limit I gave and that became my supposed contention for all etites all the time.
Certainly the Japanese run that much at times. Seko was reported to do over 50 miles for his long runs. Also google R Canova. He is the coach advisor for many of the best top africans and is pretty open with his training. He might as well be not many are going to look at it and try it and not many could or would stick to it.
Then for fun look up Gerry Lindgren He has claimed to have averaged over 300 miles per weekfor 3 months when he was at his peak
I used to run with a few trials guys. M,T,TH Am were 10miles, in the 6:30-7:00 min mile range.
M,W,F PM were 7 again 6:30-7 mi rnage
T,TH Pm were intervals and ~12-14 miles total for the workout. The intervals were run at sub 5:00 pace
Sat was a 22-32 mile run pace varied though out the run but it involved running slow an running sub 5:00 for some of it.
Sun was 12. ~6:30-7:00
That’s going to give them 100-120 per week.