2024 IM Expos: Your impressions?

Triathlon Forum
1

Several weeks ago I was talking with IM about paid access to their B roll video footage and was told No, but I could pay $75k to have an expo booth at 10 races with one race entry for each race for the remainder of 2024 as part of their new endemic sponsor program. Were they responding to this (great) article by Dan? https://www.slowtwitch.com/...gal_Status_8897.html

Yesterday, I was the Boulder 70.3 race and the bike part manufacturer I rode down to the race with pointed at what looked like 3 tents for local tri clubs and said, that’s the expo. I was in disbelief and looked around to see if the actual expo was elsewhere, but nope. That was the expo. Of course, IM’s big white tent was as professional as ever. I’ve also been at T100 Miami expo this year along with Oceanside and St George. Those expos were marginally better. Oceanside had plenty of vendors, but it was possible to go in to the white IM revival tent, pick up your packet and never step foot into the expo area. I share this because I care: I want the IM expo to be worth the $75k I was asked to pay, but as it is, I feel like I went to a car dealership and was offered a $90k Tesla that once bought would be missing a battery. I’d walk away from that dealer and never return. I don’t want to walk away from triathlon because I feel the salaried person who emailed me the $75k endemic partner offer will come and go, but the sport will remain, so would rather toss out the bath water sans baby.

What’s been your impression of the recent expos? What’s your impression of the $75k endemic partner program Ironman is offering?

2

A shadow of their former self and entirely by design. IM only is interested in their merchandise tent to the exclusion of all others. They have made it prohibitively expensive for most vendors. It’s a shame, the Expo’s used to be a real destination for participants in the days before the race.

3

What’s the incentive to have vendors there? IM wants to sell as much of their IM-branded stuff as possible and having other brands competing against the race-branded Lulu hoodies spreads our money too thin.

4

What’s the incentive to have vendors there? IM wants to sell as much of their IM-branded stuff as possible and having other brands competing against the race-branded Lulu hoodies spreads our money too thin.
I recommend reading Dan’s article linked to above and, if not anti-intellectual, a review of the strategic management literature on how broader stakeholder decisions add to firm value.

But put simply: if an Ironman expo is the equivalent of a triathlon-focused miniature Sea Otter, it significantly adds to the participant/customer experience, participant retention year over year, and that $75k starts to make sense for people like me, so more immediate revenue for IM.

As for spreading participant money thin, when you attend Sea Otter, you are not there to buy goods, you are there to see the latest and greatest bike parts, develop an emotional relationship with those parts and brands, and maybe race. I remember in the late 90s, people would come to the Memphis in May and St Anthony triathlons just to attend the expo even though they were not involved in the racing at all. That is potential value being lost.

5

Without reading the article (I will), initial reaction: IM is very different from sea otter (I had to google to make sure I was familiar with sea otter).

People don’t get a globally-recognized trademark of sea otter on their calf. I don’t disagree that sea otter (or similar events - Unbound, Leadville, ?) are celebrations of the respective sport, but the “Ironman” experience is more equivalent to a day at Disney… IMO.

*I’m not in the industry, I’ve just been a triathlon consumer for a decade. Ironman is what it is because of the IM-brand and name recognition, not because it’s a celebration for the sport.

6

Without reading the article (I will), initial reaction: IM is very different from sea otter (I had to google to make sure I was familiar with sea otter).

People don’t get a globally-recognized trademark of sea otter on their calf. I don’t disagree that sea otter (or similar events - Unbound, Leadville, ?) are celebrations of the respective sport, but the “Ironman” experience is more equivalent to a day at Disney… IMO.

*I’m not in the industry, I’ve just been a triathlon consumer for a decade. Ironman is what it is because of the IM-brand and name recognition, not because it’s a celebration for the sport.

Very fair points. A question then is: should IM be offering a $75k 10-race endemic expo package if the expo experience is not akin to what Lifetime puts on at their SBT, Leadville, Unbound or Sea Otter expos?

I wasn’t asking to be an expo exhibitor. I didn’t write them to suggest that they should offer endemic expo partnerships. I was asking to pay for video footage and was given unsolicited material to pay $75k to be an expo exhibitor; so this was their sales pitch, their marketing strategy. They were ready to pocket $75k.

7

So out of curiosity, would 200k be worth it to be the official bike saddle sponsor of Ironman?

What is the price they charge?

IM buys the saddles and sells them at booths worldwide.

Figure 180 races, 10 saddles sold per race, 250 wholesale price to IM, that’s 450k in revenue.

Plus you get all the advertising.

I have to think there are more than 10 schmucks willing to swap out their saddle on race day :slight_smile:

And a saddle sponsor seems like a pretty cool product that a lot of people would be willing to try.

So what do they charge the likes of Roka, Hyper Ice, etc?

8

So out of curiosity, would 200k be worth it to be the official bike saddle sponsor of Ironman?

What is the price they charge?

IM buys the saddles and sells them at booths worldwide.

Figure 180 races, 10 saddles sold per race, 250 wholesale price to IM, that’s 450k in revenue.

Plus you get all the advertising.

I have to think there are more than 10 schmucks willing to swap out their saddle on race day :slight_smile:

And a saddle sponsor seems like a pretty cool product that a lot of people would be willing to try.

So what do they charge the likes of Roka, Hyper Ice, etc?

Some clarification:

  • the endemic sponsor pacakge is not for becoming an IM Partner, so IM not selling the products under their big white tent.
  • the $75k gives you access to a 10x10ft plot of grass outside the white tent at 10 events. At Boulder 70.3, one of the races offered as part of the $75k package, there were what looked like 3 booths and almost no athletes walking through that area, as all athletes are funneled into the white tent, but not necessarily the expo area.
  • If they’re charging $75k for that, I can only imagine what they’re charging partners whose products are sold under the white tent.
9

Yes I’m just wondering if they price them in such a way to make it not worth being an endemic one to add value to the partners. I’d delete the thread before IM sees it and ask about being a partner :slight_smile:

I realize it’s tangential to your thread, but a saddle sponsor is actually one that would catch my eye.

Do you think KASK is spending over 200k to be a helmet partner?

10

Yes I’m just wondering if they price them in such a way to make it not worth being an endemic one to add value to the partners. I’d delete the thread before IM sees it and ask about being a partner :slight_smile:

I realize it’s tangential to your thread, but a saddle sponsor is actually one that would catch my eye.

Do you think KASK is spending over 200k to be a helmet partner?

These are good questions!

You’ve motivated me to get pricing on getting inside of the big white revival tent.

11

I think those who do not understand your point haven’t experienced a good expo. It significantly adds to the “experience” when well done. I really miss the opportunity to discover and test new products/brands and geek out with bike industry people, especially when most of us - at least in the US - now have very limited access “in real life” to different products as everything is internet-based and local bike shops keep dying or being cannibalized by Specialized or Trek to become quasi-single brand.
Your product is a good example, getting the opportunity to actually see and test saddles at an expo with experts advising you is invaluable… yet I totally understand why you wouldn’t pay $75k for a little booth when IM pushes everyone to their merch tent.

12

The entire race week feel of any M-Dot race around the world is a shadow of what was around “back in the day”. Hell,Penticton used to have a whole “Race month” Vibe.

No Carbo-Parties, No big expo’s, no Awards Dinners, no post race After-Parties. Those who were around two or three decades ago will understand what is missing but those new to the sport think this is just the way Ironman do things and have no history to compare.

The whole “race week experience” is just sad these days.

13

I have been around races all around the world on my 4th decade of racing. At one point there was no real Ironman Corporation. Just Kona and a bunch of races that got to use IM branding, but indepedent race directors ran races like Roth, or Penticton, or Wildflower or IM Japan in Lake Biwa.

In that era, the local RD’s needed and wanted support from their local sponsors (bike shops, running shoe places, cafes, pubs, local businesses, local resorts, on local management of international corporations like say Brooks in Canada while maybe Adidas was out there with their shoes in Roth. In any cases, the local race directors worked with their partners. It was awesome for athletes. A great user experience. It was literally the highlight of where to get your gear annual !!!

Now fast forward to 2024

Ironman is a global corp like Walmart of McDonalds. They have their global partners that they promote at every race (ex when they signed Vinfast, they booted out Subaru who had title sponsorship of many Canadian races for DECADES).

Fair enough, Ironman has to promote Hoka, or Brietling or Roka. They have paid for prominence.

Here is what I suggest.

Let’s take a detour to how it works at airports.

When I clear security for international travel, I have to get funnelled through Duty Free. I find it really annoying but the airport has signed the partners who get to sell at Duty free. I am forced to walk through all the BS perfumes, and chocolates and watches and trinkets that I don’t want to buy, but I have to walk through. After that I MAY go to all the “other shopping” that has acquired real estate in the airport, but it may not be on my path. If I have time, maybe I go the way of Swatch store, or Nike store or or or.

So why does IM not do the same. Integrate their partner sales into the registration process. Literally make the bib pickup step after you meandered through the entire IM merchandise tent. The line for registration could start inside the partner merchant display flow.

Then after you have your bib etc, then have a separate area for local partners that pay for one off presence at the races of their choice that are regionally relevant. Maybe if I have a coffee shop in Tremblant or Augusta, I literally set up a spot in the “other partner” expo.

Would this not solve most of this? Then everyone wins.

14

I’d seen this program and the hard sale that accompanies it elsewhere. My impression is that Ironman vastly overestimates the value a booth at their expo generates and prices it out of reach, which causes few companies to invest/show up, which in turn makes the expo crappy, which in turn reduces further the value to vendors since the participants don’t bother to go.

Asit relates to your saddles … $75k to Ironman, but that doesn’t include the cost of actually putting on the booth (employee cost, travel, shipping expense). Let’s say you somehow manage those costs down to $25k for the 10 events so we’re talking a round number of $100k, seems like it’d be more to be frank. Your saddles are what, $600-ish? … maybe gross margins 50%, I don’t know … seems like you’d have to sell 300-400 saddles at these expos TO BREAK EVEN. To make a modest return on your $100k investment, an additional 100-150. No friggin’ way. Realistically, a significant number of saddles you’d sell there might be cannibalizing future sales you’d get anyway. There’s just no way to make these numbers work, it’s a bad deal. The numbers work a little better for a bike company simply because the number of sales needed is much less, but even then it’s a huge stretch to believe it’s a good investment, and also the cost of going is much higher for bikes than something smaller like saddles.

Ironman is trying to squeeze water from stones with their current pricing on expos, and the result will be continually worse expos, until there just aren’t expos anymore.

15

Without reading the article (I will), initial reaction: IM is very different from sea otter (I had to google to make sure I was familiar with sea otter).

People don’t get a globally-recognized trademark of sea otter on their calf. I don’t disagree that sea otter (or similar events - Unbound, Leadville, ?) are celebrations of the respective sport, but the “Ironman” experience is more equivalent to a day at Disney… IMO.

*I’m not in the industry, I’ve just been a triathlon consumer for a decade. Ironman is what it is because of the IM-brand and name recognition, not because it’s a celebration for the sport.

Very fair points. A question then is: should IM be offering a $75k 10-race endemic expo package if the expo experience is not akin to what Lifetime puts on at their SBT, Leadville, Unbound or Sea Otter expos?

I wasn’t asking to be an expo exhibitor. I didn’t write them to suggest that they should offer endemic expo partnerships. I was asking to pay for video footage and was given unsolicited material to pay $75k to be an expo exhibitor; so this was their sales pitch, their marketing strategy. They were ready to pocket $75k.

When I think about it, if the expos were packed, 75k/year as a regional booth operator sounds about right. Say you get 20 races in North America and a race entry. Weren’t they charging 10k/race a couple years ago? I don’t think Ironman having their own tent really matters. Where is TJ Tollakson, he has been at IMAZ every year that I’ve lived here. The only reason I really know anything about Dimond Bikes is because of talking to him and although I don’t own a Dimond him being there continuously makes me think about his bikes. So I’d be interested in knowing what his ROI is with that.

Not sure what it would be like for a saddle manufacturer.

16

Where is TJ Tollakson, he has been at IMAZ every year that I’ve lived here. The only reason I really know anything about Dimond Bikes is because of talking to him and although I don’t own a Dimond him being there continuously makes me think about his bikes. So I’d be interested in knowing what his ROI is with that.

Not sure what it would be like for a saddle manufacturer.

The decision to go to IMAZ is strategic, it is the best expo left, both in terms of foot traffic and the sort of athletes that attend.

17

Here is what I suggest.

Let’s take a detour to how it works at airports.

When I clear security for international travel, I have to get funnelled through Duty Free. I find it really annoying but the airport has signed the partners who get to sell at Duty free. I am forced to walk through all the BS perfumes, and chocolates and watches and trinkets that I don’t want to buy, but I have to walk through. After that I MAY go to all the “other shopping” that has acquired real estate in the airport, but it may not be on my path. If I have time, maybe I go the way of Swatch store, or Nike store or or or.

So why does IM not do the same. Integrate their partner sales into the registration process. Literally make the bib pickup step after you meandered through the entire IM merchandise tent. The line for registration could start inside the partner merchant display flow.

Then after you have your bib etc, then have a separate area for local partners that pay for one off presence at the races of their choice that are regionally relevant. Maybe if I have a coffee shop in Tremblant or Augusta, I literally set up a spot in the “other partner” expo.

Would this not solve most of this? Then everyone wins.

This is how it is at IM Chatt and 70.3 Chatt- However, the expo area was MUCH smaller this year than in past years. In fact, they offered our club, Working Triathlete, a space in the expo in 2023 because we had x amount of athletes signed up to race.

18

Without reading the article (I will), initial reaction: IM is very different from sea otter (I had to google to make sure I was familiar with sea otter).

People don’t get a globally-recognized trademark of sea otter on their calf. I don’t disagree that sea otter (or similar events - Unbound, Leadville, ?) are celebrations of the respective sport, but the “Ironman” experience is more equivalent to a day at Disney… IMO.

*I’m not in the industry, I’ve just been a triathlon consumer for a decade. Ironman is what it is because of the IM-brand and name recognition, not because it’s a celebration for the sport.

Very fair points. A question then is: should IM be offering a $75k 10-race endemic expo package if the expo experience is not akin to what Lifetime puts on at their SBT, Leadville, Unbound or Sea Otter expos?

I wasn’t asking to be an expo exhibitor. I didn’t write them to suggest that they should offer endemic expo partnerships. I was asking to pay for video footage and was given unsolicited material to pay $75k to be an expo exhibitor; so this was their sales pitch, their marketing strategy. They were ready to pocket $75k.

When I think about it, if the expos were packed, 75k/year as a regional booth operator sounds about right. Say you get 20 races in North America and a race entry. Weren’t they charging 10k/race a couple years ago? I don’t think Ironman having their own tent really matters. Where is TJ Tollakson, he has been at IMAZ every year that I’ve lived here. The only reason I really know anything about Dimond Bikes is because of talking to him and although I don’t own a Dimond him being there continuously makes me think about his bikes. So I’d be interested in knowing what his ROI is with that.

Not sure what it would be like for a saddle manufacturer.

Agree with these thoughts and Dev’s. Will chat with IM on Friday and see what can be negotiated and will share if applicable.

I’ve definitely seen great expos at StG WC’s and Florida 70.3 in the past several years. And yes, once my saddle is at $550 (within a month) and I have a sub $350 version (6 months time), I see more return possible. As it is, with where I’m at, I’d be interested in just having a 2 hour meet up in the expo with some of Wove’s pros. I could see IM having a dedicated area that brands like mine can rent out and rotate through. As it is, I’m doing that off site with a saddle give away and it’s been going well, but would love to do it on site, for a fee to IM. And as Dev pointed out, if the packet pick up was on the other side of the big white tent and at the other side of the expo. In FL, you had to walk through the expo, and then into the tent - I liked that as a consumer.

19

You are describing the experience I had at IM Maine–we were forced into and through the “big white tent” in order to pick up bib and packet, and the only way out of the tent was to wander the aisles of IM merch. The other expo vendors were “outside the tent” and because it was so hot, not many people were willing to mill about in the blazing sun to see the vendors. I was very turned off the IM product after that race, and instead I chose to race more “big” local events. Interestingly, though, now that I race gravel, I am heading back to the bigger events: Steamboat, BWR and Unbound. I’d love to go to Sea Otter–it looks amazing!

20

Without reading the article (I will), initial reaction: IM is very different from sea otter (I had to google to make sure I was familiar with sea otter).

People don’t get a globally-recognized trademark of sea otter on their calf. I don’t disagree that sea otter (or similar events - Unbound, Leadville, ?) are celebrations of the respective sport, but the “Ironman” experience is more equivalent to a day at Disney… IMO.

*I’m not in the industry, I’ve just been a triathlon consumer for a decade. Ironman is what it is because of the IM-brand and name recognition, not because it’s a celebration for the sport.

Very fair points. A question then is: should IM be offering a $75k 10-race endemic expo package if the expo experience is not akin to what Lifetime puts on at their SBT, Leadville, Unbound or Sea Otter expos?

I wasn’t asking to be an expo exhibitor. I didn’t write them to suggest that they should offer endemic expo partnerships. I was asking to pay for video footage and was given unsolicited material to pay $75k to be an expo exhibitor; so this was their sales pitch, their marketing strategy. They were ready to pocket $75k.

When I think about it, if the expos were packed, 75k/year as a regional booth operator sounds about right. Say you get 20 races in North America and a race entry. Weren’t they charging 10k/race a couple years ago? I don’t think Ironman having their own tent really matters. Where is TJ Tollakson, he has been at IMAZ every year that I’ve lived here. The only reason I really know anything about Dimond Bikes is because of talking to him and although I don’t own a Dimond him being there continuously makes me think about his bikes. So I’d be interested in knowing what his ROI is with that.

Not sure what it would be like for a saddle manufacturer.

Agree with these thoughts and Dev’s. Will chat with IM on Friday and see what can be negotiated and will share if applicable.

I’ve definitely seen great expos at StG WC’s and Florida 70.3 in the past several years. And yes, once my saddle is at $550 (within a month) and I have a sub $350 version (6 months time), I see more return possible. As it is, with where I’m at, I’d be interested in just having a 2 hour meet up in the expo with some of Wove’s pros. I could see IM having a dedicated area that brands like mine can rent out and rotate through. As it is, I’m doing that off site with a saddle give away and it’s been going well, but would love to do it on site, for a fee to IM. And as Dev pointed out, if the packet pick up was on the other side of the big white tent and at the other side of the expo. In FL, you had to walk through the expo, and then into the tent - I liked that as a consumer.

I agree with what has been said as one issue is the logistics and having the same logistics at all the races. What someone mentioned, at Chattanooga 70.3 this year, you had to walk through the Ironman White tent first, and then that led you to this huge corral open area and off to the right was Playtri, and off center was the “expo” tents. You had to walk through that “expo” area to go get in line for packet pick-up and when you exited packet pick-up, that brought you back to the “expo” area, and then you had to exit through the Ironman white tent.

So, if a vendor had a plot in the expo area, 3500 athletes walked by.

However, what someone said, there were maybe 6? vendors? (Anderson Windows was one which is a puzzle). But, one vendor was selling triathlon t-shirts, visors, hats, stickers, etc. I talked with him and he was local. I can’t imagine he paid the amount you quoted and is going to 10 races. . but he for sure isn’t selling that much to make up his costs. But, I was pleased to see Ironman was “letting in” local vendors again.

When you connect with Ironman, someone needs to show Scott DeRue, the new Ironman CEO a video clip of what the Roth expo looks like so he can see what is possible. I would think he would be open to talking about options.

I don’t think you want in that Ironman White tent as it is total chaos in there and those are the key Ironman partners so the fee has to be crazy. It’s not a place to chit chat about gear.