I’m curious how many folks on ST have run a sub 3 hour marathon in their first attempt and at what age they achieved this. One of my 2016 goals is to run my first marathon (CIM in December 2016), and I want to break 3 hours. While I did 3 half marathons as part of 70.3s last year, I’ve only run 2 open half marathons, the first 5 years ago in 1:48, in which I hadn’t trained much at all, and the 2nd one 2 months ago, in which I ran in 1:24:36. This time, along with a 5k I ran last year in 18:23, suggest by way of VDOT table I should be able to run sub 3 hours with sufficient endurance training. I’m wondering how infrequent it is for a masters runner to go sub 3 his first time out. This might also suggest to me how large of challenge I have ahead of me. Thanks!
I would imagine it’s pretty unusual for first time marathoners never mind master’s runners to go sub 3 though with your half and 5k numbers, I’d say if you prepare properly, race smart and have a good day, you could absolutely go sub 3. Having said that I went sub 3 my first marathon but that was 25 years ago when I was 23. Always thought I’d go faster but never did so relish the moment. I hope you do it.
my first marathon was 3:28, i think I was 37 years old.
third marathon was 2:57, at 39 years old. (2nd, 38/3:08).
i think a sub-3 with your times is doable, but i’ll tell you this. in my first marathon, a) i probably left around 10 minutes on the course, and b) i had a great time and wouldn’t change anythign about my approach. everyone had told me, ‘marathon begins at mile 20, that’s when it gets hard, watch out for hitting the wall,’ etc. but in that first marathon i just remember those miles just clicking down in that last part.
so i was really glad to have that first marathon under my belt before i started going for specific times.
but i’ll ask you what i asked another poster recently - what are you trying to do here? if your only goal is to run a 3-hour marathon, and you only have one shot at it, then train up for it and go out and run 6:50 miles and hope you make it to the finish line. If htis is part of a transition from triathlete to runner, i’d suggest not trying to get your best possible performance in your first marathon.
also worth considering doing something in the spring. a lot of people advise against two marathons in the same year, and i’ve never tried it,but you’re talking now already about something in december. maybe a trail marathon in the spring would help? just a thought.
I believe it’s possible. But, don’t wait. Age will slow you down.
CIM is a great race when the weather cooperates. I got my PR there - way back in the “modern stone age” ('88). It’s all about pace, and, doing everything you can to hit the final 10k feeling better than “dead.” If you truly hold pace, you’ll pass people thinking that you are actually going faster. That’s what you want to have happen. The first 20 miles is a “dance” to get to the last 10k.
Quite simply, my PR came when I hit 20 and actually felt good - I was kinda surprised. Looking back, I put in several weeks of 75-90 miles, and was going sub 35 for 10k. Oh to be young.
Enjoy the journey
Despite what you may hear, your age is very amenable to training improvement if new to the mileage/distance; so you don’t need to rush it first attempt.
Extrapolating from shorter distances is always a challenge for first timers as the learning that occurs in the race itself is extensive; you mentioned the dependency of the successful training for the longer distance. IMO, your open HM time is on the edge for a first timer trying to break 3. The learning aspect of running the full itself is substantial when you are essentially aiming for max performance. Most masters I have known or worked with that went sub-3 first attempt had a bit more reserve to work with going into it e.g. 1:20-1:23 HM times. Your HM time isn’t off the mark for an experienced/trained marathoner aiming for sub-3.
However, if you want to go for it I don’t think it is crazy idea provided you hit your bench-marks in your training program. You have a good deal of time and appear to be on an upslope on what many would term as “young” running legs. If it has not been a consistent part or your training, you may find a lot of adaptation/upside when you incorporate routine longer tempo, higher mileage, and speedwork to your routine. The training effect of consistent and structured running volume is quite powerful the first time around even in folks over 40 and 50.
Cheers!
Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement! Much appreciated.
I began triathlon only a year ago so I’m not transitioning from triathlon to running. In 2015 I ran a total of 1,218 miles which is more than the rest of my life combined. For the 1:24 half marathon, I ran 5 straight weeks of 40 miles per week leading up to it, including 2 days of speed work/week. Otherwise all my running miles in 2015 were easy pace (8:00-8:30/mile). I feel with more mileage and more speed work, I have lots of room to improve my 5k, 10k, and half marathon times, so if I’m able to achieve that, it should further improve my chances at a sub 3 hour marathon.
My 2016 race schedule includes 3 70.3s in April, July, and September and then the marathon in December. I plan to run on average 30mpw (with peaks of 40-50mpw) the first half of the year while balancing swimming and cycling training. The 2nd half of the year running will be top priority, and I plan to ramp gradually to 60mpw, adding speed work in the final 3 months before the marathon. Hence, there really is no opportunity for me to run a marathon sooner.
As for pacing, I’m sure I’ll learn even more this year, but knowing what I know now, I’d employ the same strategy I used for the half marathon. I had a lot of training data that suggested I’d run between 1:24 and 1:27, but since I’d only done one open half marathon previously, at 1:48, I really wasn’t sure where I’d fall in that window. So my strategy was to run the first half of the race at 6:35 pace, even if I felt like I should be running faster, and then assess how I felt, and increase the pace if I was feeling good. Fortunately, I felt really good at the halfway mark, so I stopped incessantly looking at my watch and spent the 2nd half of the race, well, racing, and was able to up the average pace to 6:19. I’d imagine doing something similar for the marathon, perhaps aiming for 7:00 pace the first half then picking up the pace to average 6:40 (or better) the 2nd half. Is this foolish?
A guy I was working with did 2:55 on his first marathon last October. He’s in his mid 50s.
Obviously your backgrounds and genetic ability will be different but it’s not an obviously impossible objective.
sounds like you know what you’re doing and you’ve thought through your approach. and you’ll find out on the course.
not a lot of people can negative split a marathon. some can, but for most people, it’s such a beating on the quads that maintaining the same pace later in the race takes a lot more effort. i think most people would recommend waiting until later in the race to try to speed up - i’d probably say mile 18 or something.
You got it I believe in you bro !!!
I did 2:40 in Dublin 2015 in my first atempt. Never raced half (only as a part of 70.3). My 5km PB is 16:29 and never run more than 20k as a part of my marathon preps. Normal session was 10k + 20k on Sunday.
I’d imagine doing something similar for the marathon, perhaps aiming for 7:00 pace the first half then picking up the pace to average 6:40 (or better) the 2nd half. Is this foolish?
It will really depend on how well you are trained. If your main goal is to break 3 hours and you are likely just on the cusp of doing that, then you should maybe run 7:00s for the first 5-8 miles, but then hit your target pace (6:50s) for most of the race. Also, I would not speed up before mile 22. I sped up by about 15 secs/mile in a marathon at mile 18 and then at mile 22 I cracked and slowed by 90 secs/mile for the last 4 miles.
You need to be meticulous in your race planning and nutrition strategies.
While looking at what I assume is Daniels VDOT table, you might want to flip to the back of the book and look at the training plans. If you want to match your half marathon equivelent, prepare yourself for 2.5 hour runs once a week and a solid block (8-10 weeks min) of 70-80 mile weeks.
It’s way too early to even think about pacing. Just get the miles in then reevaluate a few weeks out. I have no doubt you can do this, but it’s a year away. Commit to it now and get your miles in. Also don’t limit yourself to “just breaking 3”, it’s just a number, go for “as fast as I can”. If you are going to do this go big.
You need to be meticulous in your race planning and nutrition strategies.
yeah, the nutrition is key. you don’t want to waste all the gains you made in speed training by spending time sitting in the port-a-johns.
1:24 half should indicate that you have the speed/strength for sub 3 in the right conditions.
I just did my first sub 3 in Amsterdam this year at 39 years old. I transitioned from Ironmans (7) and 8 other marathons to focusing on sub 3. Took me 3 tries though. First one about a 1.5 years ago, I stuck with 3 hour pacers and fell apart at mile 22, ended at 3:04. I trained pretty hard from Jan-April for London marathon (did a 1:24 half in Feb), but got a cold/sick on race day and ended up 3:12 (I knew I didn’t have it at mile 16).
For Amsterdam, I signed up a few months in advance and focused on rest/recovery and very key long run sessions that train your body to stay strong for the last 10k. I also did intervals during the week, but the key 3 weeks (about 3-4 weeks before the race) included these workouts:
- 5,4,3,2,1 - total 22 miles (I end up doing 19) - few mile warm up then 5 miles at MP, 6:50/mi; 1 mile easy, 4 miles at MP, 1mile easy, etc…
→ this workout was a killer, I could barely hold the pace at the end - 22 mile fast finish - I entered a relatively hilly half marathon 3 weeks before the race. I prepped as if it was race day and practiced actually eating a LOT on race morning - porridge and protein drink (I noticed I got hungry during the end of races). I ran 8-9 miles to the race at endurance pace (around 7:45-8 min/mile), then immediately jumped in the race. I did the half in 1:28 (it was pretty hilly), but I finished the last 8 miles at around 6:40-6:45/mi pace.
→ I also suggest entering 10k’s, but running like 6ish miles before the race and pushing through the 10k - I did this a few times and I would finish the 10k portion at around 38-39 min. Great strength and mental booster.
Finally, during Amsterdam I tried “warming up” a LOT, there was a nice open section to jog, so I slowly ran for 10 min, broke a sweat. I stayed away from the 3 hour pacer and started about a minute behind (that pace group is always crowded). I also decided to go way slower at the beginning (my first mile was around 7:15/mi and the first 5k was my 2nd slowest of the entire race). It was WAY better to ramp up the pace and PASS people rather than just hang-on.
I did 1H in 1:29 2H in 1:28 = 2:57
I’ve heard CIM is actually a bit hillier than people think, even though it’s net downhill. So pace the hills correctly and build up your strength. Good luck!
We have the same goal at 43, except it’s not my first. I’ve completed several Ironmans, raced 3 marathons, and ran 2015 CIM as part of a relay. I ran the first 2 legs solo, then ran with friends/family for the last 2. I agree with previous poster, it was a slightly rolling course.
As the others have said, running smart for the first 16-20 miles is a definite key so that you can feel strong for the last 10k+. I started each one feeling too good only to have 15 minute positive splits from first half marathon to second half.
I definitely think it is doable.
Picking up on what you wrote, I would encourage anyone to consider not running with the pace group. Aid stations became obstacle courses and twice I ended up with nothing. People figured this out and then ran out ahead to get to stations first.
Big marathons are ready to handle 100 people per minute at each aid station. But they are not ready fo 25 over 5 seconds.
I don’t think the age is factor as much. Based on what you wrote, I think you are doing everything right and with marathon specific layer of training, I am certain that you will go sub 3 in the first shot. I can only offer one word of wisdom. Develop and adhere to restorative component of your training. That will be a key factor in remaining healthy and putting now that training in. As we age, that component becomes far more important. So much so that I think is key and far more important then the age number. I wish you all the best and I am rooting for you. I would love to accomplish something like that and I think 2017 will be the year I will give it a go.
Interesting that I would have picked the same course to do that. 
I find CIM and R&R AZ great candidates for something like that. I turn 45 next month.
Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement! Much appreciated.
I began triathlon only a year ago so I’m not transitioning from triathlon to running. In 2015 I ran a total of 1,218 miles which is more than the rest of my life combined. For the 1:24 half marathon, I ran 5 straight weeks of 40 miles per week leading up to it, including 2 days of speed work/week. Otherwise all my running miles in 2015 were easy pace (8:00-8:30/mile). I feel with more mileage and more speed work, I have lots of room to improve my 5k, 10k, and half marathon times, so if I’m able to achieve that, it should further improve my chances at a sub 3 hour marathon.
Congrats on a good 2015. That solid base is almost as important as what you’ll do in 2016. My 2011 was very similar to your 2016 plan. I spent the first 7 months doing Tri’s before switching over to marathon training ahead of NYC. I followed Pfitzinger’s 12 week plan that fall and hit my sub 3 goal.
My only advice is to remember that your goal in that final training cycle is the marathon. That means that you should train to get comfortable at marathon pace and not get caught up trying to PR at things like 5k’s. You’re approaching the age to be careful about doing too much and too often speed training. I would rather see you doing a lot of marathon pace runs and half marathon pace runs during those final 12 weeks than a bunch of sub 6 mile repeats. The last thing you need is an ego driven muscle strain in late October.
Good luck.
Not on my 1st but I went sub 3 on my second…at age 48. 1st was a small spring race, did a 3:15. A couple months later did a 1:27 in a HM and a buddy of mine said I had a shot at sub 3 if I trained for it. Did 4 months of dedicated training and got 2:59 in a flat December race.
IMO if you want to go sub 3 you need to train for the race, no half measures. 50-70 mpw, intelligent speed work, hills, nutrition, get light. Pacing is extremely important, even splits, do not try to bank time at the front or you will pay for it later. For me I started well but ran a bit fast in the middle miles. Things started getting uncomfortable at mile 18. The last 6 miles were the most painful running I have ever done but that’s what it took to hold pace.
With a 1:24 HM I have no doubt you have the ability to go sub 3 but to give yourself the best shot you’ll have to make this an “A” race, think of yourself as a marathoner and train as a runner and not a multi-sport athlete. The one thing you don’t experience until race day is those last miles at race fatigue and pace, that’s where the open marathon differs from other races.
Sub 3 was my goal in my first marathon in 2011. Got pretty sick a month out from the race, and lost two weeks of training. Ran a 3:09 to qualify for Boston. Next real go was in 2012 for Boston. Had a real strong training block, but race day was very hot - around 90. I ran a 3:12, but my overall placing (something like 1100th) would have been around 2:56 the previous year. I ran a 36:34 10k a month out from Boston that year.
I was supposed to run NYC in 2012, but Hurricane Sandy hit and the race was canceled. I ended up running a local marathon that same weekend that was very hilly and ran 3:04.
At 37, my goal for this year is the same - sub 3. I ran a 1:21 half two months ago, which I hope will get me into NYC next fall. I’ll only have around 10 weeks between my last 70.3 in August and NYC, but I plan to be running around 50 mpw for the entire year, so ramping up to 60-65 for eight weeks should be fine and hopefully get me that elusive sub 3.
I’d say you need to drop your half a little more - say to 1:22ish to be in a bit better shape to go under 3:00.